Arm strength is so overrated. What's the point of being able to throw a ball downfield if you can't hit the receiver? Give me accuracy any day of the week.

 

Accuracy goes hand in hand with arm strength. What's the point of hitting a receiver if you can't throw the ball downfield? That's kind of a dumb question because all passes are thrown downfield to some degree, so the point is vital! I can hit a target 30 yards downfield, but I can't zip the ball to that target before the window closes. That is why you need arm strength.

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When I see Bortles play, he looks like a Roethlisberger clone.

Doesnt have the escapability, deep ball, touch, or accuracy of Big Ben.

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Arm strength is like Cab fare when you're at the bar. You just need enough to get yourself home. If you don't have enough, you're in trouble. If you have too much, you may be tempted to try some things that you shouldn't be doing.

This is actually an awesome analogy.

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Arm strength is like Cab fare when you're at the bar. You just need enough to get yourself home. If you don't have enough, you're in trouble. If you have too much, you may be tempted to try some things that you shouldn't be doing.

But but but Jamarcus Russell could throw 70 yards on his knees!

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Doesnt have the escapability, deep ball, touch, or accuracy of Big Ben.

 

He doesn't? Who are you watching??

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I don't think Bortles is anything like Gabbert in terms of style or skill in my opinion. The comparison that I've observed is that Gabbert started skyrocketing up "mock" draft boards back in late 2010, and by the time the draft season was in full force, a lot of so called experts and non experts alike thought he was the best QB on the board. How Bortles is starting to appear more often is eerily similar.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make on a previous thread.


Every year there seems to be a qb that rockets up the draft boards late on, out of memory I can't remember one was a true success.

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This is exactly the point I was trying to make on a previous thread.


Every year there seems to be a qb that rockets up the draft boards late on, out of memory I can't remember one was a true success.

 

Gabbert didn't rocket up draft boards late. He was considered the top QB prospect his junior year.

 

Some people on this board are so desperate to throw the Gabbert label on any QB prospect they don't like.

 

Lets see what prospect has long hair. You know, just like Gabbert.

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Accuracy goes hand in hand with arm strength. What's the point of hitting a receiver if you can't throw the ball downfield? That's kind of a dumb question because all passes are thrown downfield to some degree, so the point is vital! I can hit a target 30 yards downfield, but I can't zip the ball to that target before the window closes. That is why you need arm strength.

I thought that they considered Velocity the zip part to get the ball in the window before it closes, and the arm strength strictly just the ability to throw the ball down the field. I remember watching the scouting combine stuff when flacco was coming out and they measured arm strength by just having them line up and throw the ball as far down the field as they could, and the velocity, or ability to get it in small windows using a different drill.

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Gabbert didn't rocket up draft boards late. He was considered the top QB prospect his junior year.


Some people on this board are so desperate to throw the Gabbert label on any QB prospect they don't like.


Lets see what prospect has long hair. You know, just like Gabbert.

Well for one that's just completely not true because everyone thought Luck was the top qb prospect, but then he said he wasn't declaring and then Gabz shoots up through the first round.

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He doesn't? Who are you watching??

Have you seen big ben in his prime play?

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i watched this as well along with a couple of game and this is exactly why i liked him

i don't think he has the best arm but he can make alot of different throws and already makes presnap reads. In addition his pocket presence and ability to go through his reads is very well developed

 

i don't think with his arm he can be a consensus number one pick and i wonder if the reason i like him is I am just seeing what gabbert lacked and screaming shiny

 

i don't think he is truly a top 5 pick but i don't think he will make it to round 2 or even out of the top 15 especially with all the qb needy teams.

 

The arm is a bit of a concern for me with Bortles, which is why I don't think he is a top 5 pick. If we trade back later in the 1st round or if he's by any chance available in the 2nd round (he likely wouldn't), then I wouldn't mind him. There's a handful of throws to the far sideline that I see Bortles throw where it looks like he is using his entire body to get the velocity he needs to deliver the ball...and even then it is barely getting there against tight college defenses.

 

Against tougher and faster defenses in the NFL, and especially if he doesn't have a clean pocket and can't get his full strength into the throw...that's a pick 6.

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Have you seen big ben in his prime play?

 

Yeah? And?

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Yeah? And?

Did you do it with your eyes closed? 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highl...voids-sack

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highl...ds-Paulson

 

There are a million more videos like this. What do you have on Bortles?

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Well for one that's just completely not true because everyone thought Luck was the top qb prospect, but then he said he wasn't declaring and then Gabz shoots up through the first round.

 

It was never a given Luck was coming out. Gabbert was right behind him and was the number one QB by most when Luck stayed. If anybody shot up draft boards it was Christian Ponder. He was barely considered a first round prospect for most of that offseason and then goes top 15.

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I thought that they considered Velocity the zip part to get the ball in the window before it closes, and the arm strength strictly just the ability to throw the ball down the field. I remember watching the scouting combine stuff when flacco was coming out and they measured arm strength by just having them line up and throw the ball as far down the field as they could, and the velocity, or ability to get it in small windows using a different drill.

 

Velocity requires a strong arm, too. One tests how far, the other tests how fast, but both are testing arm strength. Let's look at two QB's and compare their scores from each test. QB B can throw the ball 15 yards farther, but QB A can throw the ball 30 yards half a second faster. If you look at it as a baseball pitcher, arm strength correlates to mph on a fastball. QB A can throw the ball 13 mph faster than QB B, even though QB B can throw it farther. My point is, to say arm strength is overrated by only looking at how far a QB can throw down the field, is to miss half (the important half) the picture on arm strength.

 

 

                                             QB-A   /   QB-B

 

Velocity:          1.3 seconds*                 1.8 seconds**

 

Arm Strength:          65 yards                  80 yards

 

MPH:                       47.2*                         33.9**            

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It was never a given Luck was coming out. Gabbert was right behind him and was the number one QB by most when Luck stayed. If anybody shot up draft boards it was Christian Ponder. He was barely considered a first round prospect for most of that offseason and then goes top 15.

Neither was it a given Gabbert was going considering they was the same class.


And the mentioning of Ponder actually proves my original point that QBs that shoot up late on very rarely succeed..I still can't think of any that has.

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As for the question of being Johnny being 'pro-ready', let's at least agree on this Jaguars fans: He's far more ready for primetime, the big moment, the big game, and the 'big-stage', than Bridgewater, Carr, and Bortles, maybe combined. Just by the sheer fact that for the last 2-seasons Manziel is the only quarterback of those 4 who has been playing against top-teer competition, the best of the best, the 'big boys' in the major conferences, where the best defenses play and who send the most players to the nfl each year(not to mention that Johnny's been breaking records and winning heismans while doing it).

 

How then are these 3-other qbs, playing against much lesser competition that Johnny would sneeze at, considered more 'pro-ready' than Johnny? I mean sure, we can talk adnauseum about Manziel's size/durability/arm-strength. But those are all the same things teams like Texas, Florida, TCU, and others underestimated Manziel for when they offered his scholarships, but none as a quarterback. Hasn't he proven by now that those perceived limitations are in fact not limitations. He's faced the very best, in the very best conference, and done better statistically than any other quarterback in history whose tried. Sadly, something we haven't even seen the other 3-qbs even have a chance to try.

 

So you ask me honestly then: How did these 3-other qbs, from smaller conferences, who most haven't even seen their games since most aren't televised in primetime, suddenly jump Johnny come draft time on most people's big boards? Well the problem is very simple: We live in a quarterback driven/centric league, where many teams(including us) are starving for a franchise guy. But this creates a problem where the supply doesn't meet the demand, and from that we get something called 'reaching', in particular for qbs higher than they are actually worth(think the Gabbert-draft all over again). And suddenly, in this supply-and-demand fiasco, it seems some of us have gone mad.

 

We start saying things on our big draft-boards like: "Bridgewater, Carr, and Bortles will all go in the top 10, or at the very least in the first round". But when has that happened? Three small conference qbs going in the first round like that? Never that I can remember. I personally can think of only two qbs from small colleges(flacco and smith) who have gone in the first round in the last 9-years combined. Please don't reach for a small-conference guy just because they are there Jaguars fans. Because you see, it doesn't matter how good they've looked in the games, they are playing virtually against highschool teams. Perhaps ask yourself this question and it might help: How many safeties that Teddy played against this year will be in the nfl next year? How about Carr, how many defensive linemen did he face that will be in the nfl next year? Johnny's been doing what he does in the most nfl-rich training grounds in all of college football. 

 

And so what does 'pro-ready' mean to me? Well it certainly doesn't mean you fit the pro-mold requirements for size, arm strength, durability, or any of those things. Because if that's what you're looking for then, sign Gabbert to another 10-years. No, no; what Pro-ready means to me is that I have seen this guy with my own eyes already go up against the very best competition he possibly can, against guys who are playing at the highest level possible, who will literally be playing in the nfl next year. And in that way, if we are honest with ourselves, we will admit that Teddy, Bortles, and Carr have been playing in the minor leagues. Now that doesn't mean they won't be great someday(I especially think Teddy will be). But this talk of being ready for the pros is deceiving. The fact is that Johnny has went up against and quite simply destroyed defensive players in the SEC week in and week out, who many consider to be the future of the nfl. While Teddy, Bortles, and Carr have been carving up defenses, most of which will be working at Home Depot next year. Regardless, they are no less, and certainly no more ready for the pros than Johnny.

The SEC doesn't even have the most QBs in the NFL. Competition in college does not = how good a QB is in the NFL.

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I think Bridgewater at 3 is better value than Mack at 3, yes.

 

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Clown.
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Having a rocket arm is nice and it opens up a lot more of the playbook but arm strength is more of an "adequate or not-adequate" question. Of course there is a slew of other criteria for a QB but if a guy doesn't have the arm, defensive coordinators will take away the underneath stuff and force the QB to complete throws down the field that he cannot.

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Did you do it with your eyes closed? 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highl...voids-sack

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highl...ds-Paulson

 

There are a million more videos like this. What do you have on Bortles?

you do realize your comparing an elite nfl QB with years of experience to a college QB

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I've had such a schizophrenic opinion on Bortles over the last few months. Some days I like him, some days I think he needs a lot of work.


It might be a little bit of both, but today I like him. Just watched his Penn St. game and, for the most part, he played really well. I also liked his poise in a hostile Louisville environment during that game winning drive, sub-two minutes in that contest.


He has enough arm strength to make all of the throws, ideal size (6'4, 230), and good mobility. Plus, he doesn't shrink as the pocket collapses a la Gabbert. This guy actually stands tall and goes through progressions even when he knows he's about to get laid out.


So today I like him. Tomorrow is another day.

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