When he threw for 4400 yards, he was under Bradley. So the blame can't be placed on anybody other than Bortles.

 

Yeah, he set franchise records while playing for the worst head coach in league history. We absolutely can blame Bradley for what happened, and the BB5 we saw the last 2 weeks of the year was night and day different. Hopefully that will continue into this season now that we have an actual coach leading this team instead of the Bobblehead.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I don't think they wait long enough.. Look at how well Gabbert did as soon as he was traded..



Haha


I'm drunk.

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I don't think they wait long enough.. Look at how well Gabbert did as soon as he was traded..



Haha


I'm drunk.

 

 

 

He really didn't do that good.


 

 

That said, they have waited WAY too long hanging onto Henne.

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'02

I just find it scary my QB needs to remember how to THROW correctly. You are a QB. That is your job. You are in your 4th year as a pro quarterback and need to be reminded of basics? That's not normal. Has any QB had this situation? And have they succeeded still? 

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I just find it scary my QB needs to remember how to THROW correctly. You are a QB. That is your job. You are in your 4th year as a pro quarterback and need to be reminded of basics? That's not normal. Has any QB had this situation? And have they succeeded still? 

 

 

I've seen this both in darts, bowling and billiards. That is, people who seemingly are great at the game come back at a later time and just don't quite have it anymore, but then with just a little correction on basics they've overlooked, suddenly they're back on their game. It happens, although often these same people regress again after not playing for a while, etc. They key is sticking to it and retaining muscle memory so you don't revert to bad habits.


 

Have we seen this in another NFL quarterback? Well, look at the guy who we tend to compare Blake's ceiling to, as in Ben Roethlisberger. He came out as a rookie and was as sharp as a tack throwing the ball, and he followed that up with a fantastic sophomore season. But then came year three and suddenly he was off. His completion percentage dipped from 66.4 percent as a rookie to a paltry 59.7 percent in year three while his YPA dropped from 8.9 to 7.5, his INTs went up from 11 to 23, his fumbles from 2 to 5, and his qb rating from 98.1 to 75.4. After that season the Steelers fixed his mechanics, and he's bee a rock solid starting QB... top five most seasons... since. Over the 10 seasons since getting back on track, he's been to 5 Pro Bowls and won 2 Super Bowls.

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'02

I've seen this both in darts, bowling and billiards. That is, people who seemingly are great at the game come back at a later time and just don't quite have it anymore, but then with just a little correction on basics they've overlooked, suddenly they're back on their game. It happens, although often these same people regress again after not playing for a while, etc. They key is sticking to it and retaining muscle memory so you don't revert to bad habits.


 

Have we seen this in another NFL quarterback? Well, look at the guy who we tend to compare Blake's ceiling to, as in Ben Roethlisberger. He came out as a rookie and was as sharp as a tack throwing the ball, and he followed that up with a fantastic sophomore season. But then came year three and suddenly he was off. His completion percentage dipped from 66.4 percent as a rookie to a paltry 59.7 percent in year three while his YPA dropped from 8.9 to 7.5, his INTs went up from 11 to 23, his fumbles from 2 to 5, and his qb rating from 98.1 to 75.4. After that season the Steelers fixed his mechanics, and he's bee a rock solid starting QB... top five most seasons... since. Over the 10 seasons since getting back on track, he's been to 5 Pro Bowls and won 2 Super Bowls.

 

Pretty sure year 3 was when Big Ben was in a motorcycle crash and had an emergency appendectomy. The guy was not healthy to be on the field at all. 

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Pretty sure year 3 was when Big Ben was in a motorcycle crash and had an emergency appendectomy. The guy was not healthy to be on the field at all. 

 

 

The accident was in June. He was healthy enough for training camp so that wasn't really the issue, however, I do think it contributed to his sudden regression regarding his mechanics as the Steelers surely went easy on him in TC.

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'02

Pretty sure year 3 was when Big Ben was in a motorcycle crash and had an emergency appendectomy. The guy was not healthy to be on the field at all. 

 

Doesn't really matter, he's shown through his career to be a franchise QB, but by no means one of the elite ones.

 

Had he been drafted by the Jaguars in 2004 maybe he wins a superb owl with the Jaguars in 2007, but he'd definitely not have been to 3 of them, and would be thought of very differently than he is since he plays for a legacy team with a lot of popularity.

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Doesn't really matter, he's shown through his career to be a franchise QB, but by no means one of the elite ones.

 

Had he been drafted by the Jaguars in 2004 maybe he wins a superb owl with the Jaguars in 2007, but he'd definitely not have been to 3 of them, and would be thought of very differently than he is since he plays for a legacy team with a lot of popularity.

 

 

I consider Big Ben to be an elite modern quarterback. It's a rare season that he's not among the top five.

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'02

I consider Big Ben to be an elite modern quarterback. It's a rare season that he's not among the top five.

 

Really? What are you basing that on?

 

Are you aware that in his career he's only played 16 games 3 times?

Are you aware that in the last 4 seasons he's thrown 52 interceptions?

Are you aware that his career TD:INT ratio is less than 2:1?

Are you aware that he's only thrown for more than 30 TDs in a season one more time than Bortles has thrown for 30 TDs in a season?

Are you aware that in the playoffs his TD:INT ratio is almost 1:1? (25 TD, 23 INT)

Are you aware that he's only had one season in which he both started 16 games and threw single digit INTs?

 

My enduring memory of Roethlisberger is throwing INTs in the playoffs. Remember this one? https://youtu.be/46pqz1C5m0M?t=180

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Are you aware that Big Ben keeps winning games?


 

Look, all I know is that many times over the years I've looked at ranking the qbs. It's one of those list things I like to do such as power rankings. Anyways, I always end up putting Roethlisberger right up there about #5, and nobody ever questions his being up there.

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'02

Are you aware that Big Ben keeps winning games?

 

I could have sworn it was the Steelers that keep winning games as a team, and not just Roethlisberger by himself.

 

Seriously, Jags02, he's a good QB, a franchise QB, he's not an elite QB. Instead of doubling down on something you know isn't just Big Ben's accomplishment accept that maybe you were going on perception and didn't realize he's actually not on that level. I mean, his 23 playoffs INTs really says it all.

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I could have sworn it was the Steelers that keep winning games as a team, and not just Roethlisberger by himself.

 

Seriously, Jags02, he's a good QB, a franchise QB, he's not an elite QB. Instead of doubling down on something you know isn't just Big Ben's accomplishment accept that maybe you were going on perception and didn't realize he's actually not on that level. I mean, his 23 playoffs INTs really says it all.

 

 

He at least deserves the tag "borderline elite."

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'02

Rothlisburger is very good but not elite. He's top 5 to 7.

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Elite is Brady, Brees, Rodgers

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He at least deserves the tag "borderline elite."

 

Why even bother with a tag like that?

 

I think JagFanatic24 is on the right track. The idea that 15-20% of the QBs starting in the NFL are elite is laughable. Rodgers and Brady are definitely elite, Brees might be, too. Roethlisberger is in what I'd consider the next tier of guys, franchise passers, they run up scores on bad teams, but all other things being equal, they usually end up losing to the elite guys. That's the tier for QBs like Big Ben, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Luck, Alex Smith, and others that aren't worth mentioning but who can win against bad teams, and can also win if the team around them is better than the team around the other team's QB.

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Why even bother with a tag like that?

 

I think JagFanatic24 is on the right track. The idea that 15-20% of the QBs starting in the NFL are elite is laughable. Rodgers and Brady are definitely elite, Brees might be, too. Roethlisberger is in what I'd consider the next tier of guys, franchise passers, they run up scores on bad teams, but all other things being equal, they usually end up losing to the elite guys. That's the tier for QBs like Big Ben, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Luck, Alex Smith, and others that aren't worth mentioning but who can win against bad teams, and can also win if the team around them is better than the team around the other team's QB.

Luck and Smith arent anywhere near those other 3.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Luck and Smith arent anywhere near those other 3.

 

Doesn't really matter.

 

There are elite QBs, they will dominate all QBs below them when the team's surrounding them are equal, they will have epic games when they face off against each other. Right now there's Tom Brady, there's Aaron Rodgers, arguably Brees, too, and it's really hard to make an argument for anyone else to be in this tier.

 

Below that are the franchise non-elite passers, they lose to the elites if the teams surrounding them are the same, but beat the "prospective franchise" QBs and "Henne level" guys when all else is equal.

 

Below them are the "prospective franchise" level guys. That's where I put the guys like Jameis Winston, Mariota, and Bortles. They've shown they have abilities, but they haven't shown they can consistently do it yet. All things being equal they usually win against the teams led by Henne level guys and usually lose against the franchise level guys, and usually get their butts kicked by the elites.

 

Then there are the Henne level guys, they're bottom of the league starters and backups. If your team is starting one of these guys your team probably can't get past 8-8 or 9-7 no matter how good it is, because there just aren't enough bad teams usually to allow for your team to win that many games. Brock Osweiler is an example of this level of QB. The texans got confused by how much winning the Broncos did with him at QB and assumed he must have something since it's so hard for a team to win with a garbage level QB.

 

You can argue about guys being in the second or third tier if you like, but the way I see it those are the actual tiers of NFL QB.

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Bortles, like the rest of this team, is someone whose "total is less than the sum of the parts." In his 4th season we'll get to finally see a player released from the shackles of Gusdom, and then we can make a decision on what he is or isn't. 

 

And the opposite is true, they tried to move on from Brunell too soon and it's been downhill ever since.

I am really, really hoping this makes a difference. 

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Doesn't really matter.

 

There are elite QBs, they will dominate all QBs below them when the team's surrounding them are equal, they will have epic games when they face off against each other. Right now there's Tom Brady, there's Aaron Rodgers, arguably Brees, too, and it's really hard to make an argument for anyone else to be in this tier.

 

Below that are the franchise non-elite passers, they lose to the elites if the teams surrounding them are the same, but beat the "prospective franchise" QBs and "Henne level" guys when all else is equal.

 

Below them are the "prospective franchise" level guys. That's where I put the guys like Jameis Winston, Mariota, and Bortles. They've shown they have abilities, but they haven't shown they can consistently do it yet. All things being equal they usually win against the teams led by Henne level guys and usually lose against the franchise level guys, and usually get their butts kicked by the elites.

 

Then there are the Henne level guys, they're bottom of the league starters and backups. If your team is starting one of these guys your team probably can't get past 8-8 or 9-7 no matter how good it is, because there just aren't enough bad teams usually to allow for your team to win that many games. Brock Osweiler is an example of this level of QB. The texans got confused by how much winning the Broncos did with him at QB and assumed he must have something since it's so hard for a team to win with a garbage level QB.

 

You can argue about guys being in the second or third tier if you like, but the way I see it those are the actual tiers of NFL QB.

 

 

You're giving Henne far too much credit here. There's surely an even lower tier for him.

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'02