You do realize that pointing out which franchise actually earned that storied past vs. the one that resides in Cleveland currently is not trashing the city of Cleveland, right?  It's simply pointing out the fact that despite the league saying Cleveland would retain the history, the Browns were pretty much treated like an expansion franchise when they came back into the league in 1999.  It's not really the same team that built that history. 

 

 

That point should have been more than obvious, given the collective indigestion amongst Browns fans when the Ravens and Art Modell hoisted the Lombardi trophy for what should have been the Browns.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

What makes no sense is how a team-ownership, front office, players, equipment, etc. can completely leave Cleveland and relocate in Baltimore, not play for three full seasons, have an entirely different organization put in its place, and people act as if absolutely nothing happened.  It sounds like a comic book plot with alternate realities/timelines.

 

 

What makes no sense to me is how a football crazed place like Cleveland is supposed to be can allow it's stadium to become such a dump as Cleveland Municipal stadium did to justify Modell leaving?!?  If the Browns are king in Cleveland, didn't they deserve the state of the art facility they now play in long before Modell and the Browns left?   It's not as if they didn't win anything.  It's not as if they didn't build the proud tradition you cited a few posts ago.  Why not build the new stadium before 1999?!?

 

For the record, I've no obligation nor inclination to be particularly nice to the teams of opposing teams fans, especially when fans of those teams have talked smack about us.

Not trying to get into about that whole situation but basically we did. Before we were planning the Gateway sports project we offered to build him a new stadium aswell and he turned it down saying he just wanted money for renovations and etc so he got it. Then like half a decade later we look to build the Indians and Cavs new park/arena he starts freaking out saying "How come they get a new stadium?" and we were just like dude we just upgraded your stadium now you want a new one? But anyway if you want to know more just google it. You'll find out how much of a piece of scum Art was.

 

As to your point about how a team-ownership, front office, players, equipment, etc. mean anything to our history. How come the Jaguars keep their history? Haven't your ownership, front office, players, and equipment changed? If anything our uniforms are the same lol. Do you consider teams that stopped play during WW2 history before then null and void as well?

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Who here has portrayed the Jags as any sort of storied franchise?   I think most here have been pretty fair in their reasoning behind why it would benefit Mack to come to Florida.  The fact that the Browns have been a lousy team for all but a couple of years since coming back into the league is a minor point.  There are plenty of draws for a guy looking for a huge payday to take it in Florida vs. Ohio. 

 

As far as ripping on the Cleveland, I'm not seeing it.  I see people ripping some of the fans on a message board or responding to an article, mainly because their comments are the stereotypical "ignorati" comments about the Jags moving to London or LA, etc..  Those idiots are well worth bashing.  

I know their not moving man it was just to make a point. Jeez lol. And I wasn't talking about that post as the one ripping on the Browns. It was the ones earlier in this thread talking about how they would love to get out of that "awful city" and off that "terrible franchise" etc.

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Not trying to get into about that whole situation but basically we did. Before we were planning the Gateway sports project we offered to build him a new stadium aswell and he turned it down saying he just wanted money for renovations and etc so he got it. Then like half a decade later we look to build the Indians and Cavs new park/arena he starts freaking out saying "How come they get a new stadium?" and we were just like dude we just upgraded your stadium now you want a new one? But anyway if you want to know more just google it. You'll find out how much of a piece of scum Art was.

 

As to your point about how a team-ownership, front office, players, equipment, etc. mean anything to our history. How come the Jaguars keep their history? Haven't your ownership, front office, players, and equipment changed? If anything our uniforms are the same lol. Do you consider teams that stopped play during WW2 history before then null and void as well?

 

That's a pretty dumb question, don't you think?  Some things change, but the Jaguars are still playing in the same city, in the same stadium, in front of the same fans. 

 

Teams that stopped play during WW2 returned to the same cities, and the same fans that they were playing in front of before the war.  If you really don't see the difference here, this is a pointless discussion.  The team that plays in Cleveland today is an expansion franchise that came into the league in 1999.  They got the history from the team that played there, but that was a bone the league threw to the fans in Cleveland.  That team didn't earn any of that history. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Browns sux. That is all.


At least we will drive up the price on that joke franchise.

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I know their not moving man it was just to make a point. Jeez lol. And I wasn't talking about that post as the one ripping on the Browns. It was the ones earlier in this thread talking about how they would love to get out of that "awful city" and off that "terrible franchise" etc.

Given the option of playing in Cleveland or Jacksonville, I'm betting the majority of players would head south.  It's not that Cleveland is an awful city.  It's just not Florida.  For a young millionaire professional athlete, that's a big deal.  The tax structure, the weather, and the perks of the Florida lifestyle are a draw. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

That's a pretty dumb question, don't you think?  Some things change, but the Jaguars are still playing in the same city, in the same stadium, in front of the same fans. 

 

Teams that stopped play during WW2 returned to the same cities, and the same fans that they were playing in front of before the war.  If you really don't see the difference here, this is a pointless discussion.  The team that plays in Cleveland today is an expansion franchise that came into the league in 1999.  They got the history from the team that played there, but that was a bone the league threw to the fans in Cleveland.  That team didn't earn any of that history.

Umm no it's not. We're playing in the same city in front of the same fans. And either way if Art didn't move we would have built him a new stadium or when we came back it way it was gonna be a new/different stadium so that point is moot. I mean I don't get your reasoning to be honest.

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Umm no it's not. We're playing in the same city in front of the same fans. And either way if Art didn't move we would have built him a new stadium or when we came back it way it was gonna be a new/different stadium so that point is moot. I mean I don't get your reasoning to be honest.

 

Okay, we'll just ignore the fact that the team that earned all the history played in Baltimore for 3 seasons while no team was playing in Cleveland.  The entire organization was active, and still is, in Baltimore. 

 

The reasoning isn't that difficult to understand.  The Browns didn't go on some hiatus for 3 seasons.  They simply left the city they were in and moved to greener pastures.  The Ravens didn't inherit the Colts history when they arrived in Baltimore.  The Colts took it with them.  The Cardinals didn't leave their history in St. Louis when they moved to Arizona, and the Rams didn't assume that history when they back filled their spot in Missouri.  When the Oilers moved to Tennessee, and the Texans replaced them in Houston, the team didn't acquire the Oilers history.

 

The league made a concession to the city of Cleveland because of the long history there, but the bottom line here is that the Cleveland Browns are an expansion franchise that entered the league in 1999, assuming the history the Baltimore Ravens forfeited in order to get out of there.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Why do the Indianapolis Colts keep the history of the Baltimore Colts, but Baltimore doesn't get to keep the history of the Browns anyway?

 

Also the Raiders, Cardinals, and Rams.  


I'd say "Maybe it's because they changed the name..." but the Houston Oilers became the Tennessee Titans, and retained the history.  Meanwhile the Texans got a team a few years later, and didn't get their history back.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Given the option of playing in Cleveland or Jacksonville, I'm betting the majority of players would head south.  It's not that Cleveland is an awful city.  It's just not Florida.  For a young millionaire professional athlete, that's a big deal.  The tax structure, the weather, and the perks of the Florida lifestyle are a draw. 

I agree 100% that's why I'm here. Not that I'm a multi millionaire athlete lol. I do think though that he's not dying to get out of Cleveland. He's made close friends there and it's not like it's Iraq for heavens sake. Having 50 million anywhere can be awesome. Plus it's not like he has to stay in Cleveland the other 7 months out the year.

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I agree 100% that's why I'm here. Not that I'm a multi millionaire athlete lol. I do think though that he's not dying to get out of Cleveland. He's made close friends there and it's not like it's Iraq for heavens sake. Having 50 million anywhere can be awesome. Plus it's not like he has to stay in Cleveland the other 7 months out the year.

If he wasn't eager to get out of Cleveland, he wouldn't be actively working with the Jaguars to structure a contract that will allow him to do exactly that. Earning $50 million, and not having to pay state and local taxes on top of federal taxes because you earned it in Ohio has a pretty significant bearing on where players want to play.  It's a matter of saving millions of dollars for larger contracts by not having to pay 7-8% in state/local income taxes.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Why do the Indianapolis Colts keep the history of the Baltimore Colts, but Baltimore doesn't get to keep the history of the Browns anyway?

 

Also the Raiders, Cardinals, and Rams.  


I'd say "Maybe it's because they changed the name..." but the Houston Oilers became the Tennessee Titans, and retained the history.  Meanwhile the Texans got a team a few years later, and didn't get their history back.

Cause the fans took him and the NFL to court for trying to take the team away from us so the NFL granted the current team to move to Baltimore and to start it's history fresh and promised Cleveland it would retain its history,name,uniforms, and etc. They also promised they will have a team again before the start of the 2000 season.

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Cause the fans took him and the NFL to court for trying to take the team away from us so the NFL granted the current team to move to Baltimore and to start it's history fresh and promised Cleveland it would retain its history,name,uniforms, and etc. They also promised they will have a team again before the start of the 2000 season.

Just not the same team that left the city.  :woot:

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

@RapSheet: Here is #Jaguars offer sheet Alex Mack will be signing tomorrow: 5 years, $42M. It’s $18M over 2 with player option after ’15. Can’t tag him

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Probably a brown

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If he wasn't eager to get out of Cleveland, he wouldn't be actively working with the Jaguars to structure a contract that will allow him to do exactly that. Earning $50 million, and not having to pay state and local taxes on top of federal taxes because you earned it in Ohio has a pretty significant bearing on where players want to play.  It's a matter of saving millions of dollars for larger contracts. 

Ya I'm sure he would make more in Florida but I remember somebody posting this aritcle a while ago that explained athletes have to pay taxes in states for away games. But basically the point of the article was it's not as dramatic as it seems when you factor all the loop holes and etc.

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Ya I'm sure he would make more in Florida but I remember somebody posting this aritcle a while ago that explained athletes have to pay taxes in states for away games. But basically the point of the article was it's not as dramatic as it seems when you factor all the loop holes and etc.

If he's playing half his games in Ohio, he's forking out big money in state and local taxes for those games, plus a piece of any other games played in states/cities where they also have taxes.  Cutting half of that out of the equation, especially for a contract the size this will wind up being is a huge savings, and he'll still be able to take advantage of the loop holes and etc..

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

@RapSheet: Here is #Jaguars offer sheet Alex Mack will be signing tomorrow: 5 years, $42M. It’s $18M over 2 with player option after ’15. Can’t tag him

No way the browns don't match that.

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No way the browns don't match that.

Let's just wait and see what the ACTUAL contract is, and how it's structured before we jump to any conclusions.  Again, if the deal is still being drafted, there's no way of knowing for sure what is real and what is just rumor that's floating around out there.  Even if this is the deal, depending on how it's structured, anything is possible. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

No way the browns don't match that.

Yeap no way we don't match it. Jags are actually saving us money lol. We were ready to pay him close to 11 and you guys signed him to a 2 year 18 million dollar contract.

 

Edit* Thats all if this is the true offer of course.

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