He had a quality start. It's not Strasburg's fault he doesn't get run support. If you are really citing wins and losses as a reputable stat, you are dumber than I thought you were.

 

Did you even read my post? Strasburg has been every bit as good as Justin Verlander, Zack Grienkes, Chris Sale, Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee, etc. If those guys have been aces over the past 5 years (and they have), then Strasburg is an ace. Period.

 

Hey stupid, Its not as blanket as citing "wins" as a stat, I'm talking about when you are given a lead LATE in games and you continually blow it. 

 

There is a difference. 

 

If Strasburg was the "ace" you claim he is, he'd be able to hold a few more LATE leads. I'm not talking about where the bullpen blows it, I'm taking about where -he- blows the games late with a late run or 2. Given that he also seems to make stupid pitches when he's ahead in 2 strike counts, its probably as I cited, a mental issue. He's having trouble closing the door. 

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In 0-2 counts vs Strasburg, hitters are hitting .063 with a .073 slugging. In 1-2 counts .171 with .256 slugging. Now I don't have the average pitchers stats in that situation, but I looked at Scherzer and King Felix for comparison, and they are about the same as Strasburg.


Hail pretty much nailed it, dude is one of the best in the game.

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In 0-2 counts vs Strasburg, hitters are hitting .063 with a .073 slugging. In 1-2 counts .171 with .256 slugging. Now I don't have the average pitchers stats in that situation, but I looked at Scherzer and King Felix for comparison, and they are about the same as Strasburg.


Hail pretty much nailed it, dude is one of the best in the game.

 

Yeah, the stats are out there for anyone who isn't too lazy to look them up or to stupid to understand them. TMD cited peripherals earlier in this thread, so I thought he would respect stats that matter. I cited 5 stats that are thing are a few of the most important when evaluating a pitcher and Strasburg is right up there with the best pitchers in the game in every single category.

 

Is Strasburg the 2nd coming like he was touted up to be? No, but that's not his fault as much as it is the medias fault. Despite the fact that Strasburg isn't one of the best of all time, he is still a top 10 pitcher in the league. If someone is saying that Strasburg isn't an ace, they are also saying the Felix Hernandez, Max Scherzer, Chris Sale, Zack Greinke, and Cliff Lee aren't aces. Someone saying those guys aren't aces needs to stop watching baseball.

 

 

TMD, humor me, give me a list of your Aces over the past 5 seasons. Go.

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Once again, Strasburg has been on the same level as pitchers like Scherzer, Felix, Greinke, Lee, etc. etc. etc. Call them guys non-aces and make yourself look like an ever bigger fool.

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In 0-2 counts vs Strasburg, hitters are hitting .063 with a .073 slugging. In 1-2 counts .171 with .256 slugging. Now I don't have the average pitchers stats in that situation, but I looked at Scherzer and King Felix for comparison, and they are about the same as Strasburg.


Hail pretty much nailed it, dude is one of the best in the game.

 

I'd like to see those stats for 0-2 or 1-2 counts later in games 6th/ 7th innings, or when just given a lead.....because he sure seems to give it right back when in those situations. But who knows maybe I'm being too tough on him,....given his 8 wins as a total last season, I'm thinking not, though,...

 

Even King Felix won 13 in his "non run support" year. (won Cy Young that year too). 

 

I think Strasburg is one of the best "talents" in the game.....thats a bit different context than saying I don't think Stras is yet an "ace" because of how I perceive him handle situation in the later innings when protecting a lead. A true "ace" will hold that lead at that point almost every time. 

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I'm not surprised you're too scared to give a list of your aces. Strasburg is a top 10 pitcher. If you claim otherwise, you are a moron. Top 10 pitchers are aces. End of discussion.

 

 

Also, there you go citing "Wins" again, lol. Strasburg had 14 games last year where he went 5+ innings and gave up 2 or less runs and either took a Loss or No Decision. Felix, even in that year, only had 12 games where he went 5+ innings and gave up 2 or less runs and either took a Loss or No Decision. Felix also pitched 249.2 innings compared to Strasburg's 183.0.

 

 

I tried to make it easy for you. I know you have trouble reading, so I made pretty little comparison charts for you. It is blatantly clear that Strasburg has been every bit as good as Felix Hernandez. Felix is an ace and so is Strasburg.

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TMD, you mentioned peripherals earlier in this thread. I'm going to ask you an honest question: are you familiar with advanced stats and how to analyze them? Or am I wasting my time discussing things like FIP and BABIP?

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I'm not surprised you're too scared to give a list of your aces. Strasburg is a top 10 pitcher. If you claim otherwise, you are a moron. Top 10 pitchers are aces. End of discussion.

 

 

Also, there you go citing "Wins" again, lol. Strasburg had 14 games last year where he went 5+ innings and gave up 2 or less runs and either took a Loss or No Decision. Felix, even in that year, only had 12 games where he went 5+ innings and gave up 2 or less runs and either took a Loss or No Decision. Felix also pitched 249.2 innings compared to Strasburg's 183.0.

 

 

I tried to make it easy for you. I know you have trouble reading, so I made pretty little comparison charts for you. It is blatantly clear that Strasburg has been every bit as good as Felix Hernandez. Felix is an ace and so is Strasburg.

 

'k

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TMD, you mentioned peripherals earlier in this thread. I'm going to ask you an honest question: are you familiar with advanced stats and how to analyze them? Or am I wasting my time discussing things like FIP and BABIP?

 

Yep, know about them. 

 

You keep ignoring what I am saying about Stras. 

 

My whole premise isn't that he's not one of the most talented pitchers in baseball - I freely admit he is. My issue with him is he's a choker (I guess). He seems to have a penchant for giving away leads late in starts and has trouble at those same times when he has hitters 0-2/ 1-2. As said, its likely a mental issue. Leaves too many fat pitches at the wrong times. 

 

If you want to label Stras an "ace" be my guest. I won't until he starts to resolve that issue and slam the door shut, later in games with leads. 

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Since you aren't interested in learning: BABIP stands for Batting Average for Balls In Play. Pitchers don't have much control over balls that are hit in play, and therefor over the course of a large sample size BABIP #s are always expected to revert back to the mean. From Frangraphs:

 

"Context:

The average BABIP for pitchers is around .290 to .300, and pitchers have much less control over their BABIP than batters. To what degree pitchers can influence their BABIPs is still up for debate, but it has been proven that pitchers with strikeout rates tend to generate weaker contact and, therefore, allow fewer hits on balls in play. The same is generally true of relievers, as they can dial up the intensity over shorter outings.

 

Even then, though, high strikeout pitchers still have career BABIPs just slightly lower than the typical .290 to .300 range. Think Justin Verlander (.285 career BABIP) or Clayton Kershaw (.279 career BABIP).

 

And if any pitcher is posting an extremely deviant BABIP, expect them to regress toward league average."

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/babip/

 

 

Strasburg career BABIP = .297 (normal)

Strasburg 2014 BABIP = .357 (extremely deviant)

Strasburg 2014 High-Leverage BABIP .583 (absurdly high)

 

High BABIPS are what statistics guys are talking about when saying guys are getting "unlucky". Stasburg has been EXTREMELY unlucky in 2014, but aside from that has been a stud. (High K rates, High K/BB rates, etc.)

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lol, I know what BABIP is. Anyone in fantasy baseball worth their salt knows all the stats, dude. 

 

None of what you are citing changes the point that I am arguing. 

 

I don't see it as "unlucky" when in the 5th/ 6th/ 7th inning trying to protect a lead you throw a BEACHBALL down the pike on a 1-2 or 0-2 count. It happens too often with Stras. If those hitters would be hitting balls on the corners or out of the zone and getting those "unlucky" hits, then perhaps you'd have a point. 

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If you know the stats, the how can you possibly claim that the #1 pitcher in xFIP over the last 5 years (among qualified pitchers) is not an ace? Anyone "worth their salt" and claims to "know the stats" should realize how valuable of a tool xFIP is when evaluating a pitcher.

 

xFIP top 10 among qualified Starting Pitchers since 2010:

1. Stephen Strasburg

2. Cliff Lee

3. Adam Wainwright

4. Chris Sale

5. Felix Hernandez

6. Clayton Kershaw

7. Roy Halladay

8. Yu Darvish

9. Zack Greinke

10. Cole Hamels

 

 

The guy is an ace. I know you won't change your opinion despite the fact that all of the stats are against you, but I still feel obligated to keep you from swaying the general public with your nonsense. Who are aces?

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If you know the stats, the how can you possibly claim that the #1 pitcher in xFIP over the last 5 years (among qualified pitchers) is not an ace? Anyone "worth their salt" and claims to "know the stats" should realize how valuable of a tool xFIP is when evaluating a pitcher.

 

xFIP top 10 among qualified Starting Pitchers since 2010:

1. Stephen Strasburg

2. Cliff Lee

3. Adam Wainwright

4. Chris Sale

5. Felix Hernandez

6. Clayton Kershaw

7. Roy Halladay

8. Yu Darvish

9. Zack Greinke

10. Cole Hamels

 

 

The guy is an ace. I know you won't change your opinion despite the fact that all of the stats are against you, but I still feel obligated to keep you from swaying the general public with your nonsense. Who are aces?

 

Of that group I like Wainwright, Kershaw, Hernandez,... I loved Jose Fernandez - HE was my textbook definition of "Ace"....as is Tanaka this year. Halladay too for his first several Phillies years, pre-decline. 

 

Not a Grienke or Sale guy...

 

Hamels is trash this year, probably playing hurt. 

 

Darvish?.....maybe in time, still seems a bit too up/ down. 

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Yes, I'm with you on JoFer. JoFer might end up being the best pitcher of his era. Wainwright and Kershaw are probably the two best pitchers in baseball. Those three I will give you as being better than Strasburg.

 

Greinke has been a top 10 pitcher over that span and is so having a year as good as his Cy-Young year in 2009. I think he is an ace.

Sale is young, like Strasburg, but is most definitely an ace as long as he can avoid the injury bug.

Hamels is trash this year, correct, but the stats are from 2010 (hence, Halladay).

 

Strasburg has pitched just as well as Lee, Hernandez, or any other aces (and once aces) I haven't mentioned (Scherzer, Verlander, Sabathia, Price). It would be criminal to leave Strasburg out of the top 10 pitchers since 2010. In my opinion, that is ace worthy.

 

 

I guess it is semantics we are just arguing. I consider Strasburg an ace, but not quite Elite. I think you are using the word "Ace" the way I use the word "Elite". I think Kershaw is elite. I think Wainwright is elite. I think Scherzer is elite (right now, at least). I think Jose Fernandez is elite. Those four would go in Tier 1 of my rankings. Tier 2, and not far behind, would be a group of "Aces" like Felix, Lee, Strasburg, Darvish, Tanaka)

 

When you're better than 50% of the leagues #1 pitcher, it's hard to say you aren't an "Ace". Wiki defines an ace as:

"In baseball, an ace is the best starting pitcher on a team and nearly always the first pitcher in the team's starting rotation. Barring injury or exceptional circumstances, an ace typically starts on Opening Day. In addition, aces are usually preferred to start crucial playoff games, sometimes on three days rest."

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I hate to interrupt this discussion. But I really, really hate the Red Sox.

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