For the third time:  Draft a run-stuffing DT or big end.   Why is this deemed some impossible feat? 

Hell, they could take a big end in Rasheem Greene at #61 this year to groom behind Campbell if they really wanted to jump-start the process. 
There are also a couple of "shade-nose" types in the middle rounds that they could take a flier on to groom behind Dareus.  
Of course - they could just wait until next year and draft one of these types early -  even if it means moving up to get him.

Greene big end?  Hes just your prototypical classic right end imo who has one of the highest ceilings.

  PJ Hall is a guy I think we could look at in the mid rounds to replace Dareus. Played in a smaller conference but dominated, can rush the passer and good against the run

At 275 pounds - a great wingspan -  and experience kicking inside and rushing effectively from the 3 tech spot Greene seems like a pretty good comp to Campbell's skill set to me. Label it whatever you want. 

Hall is one of the shade nose types I mentioned. There's an outside chance he falls to the late fourth round due to lack of height, but they'd probably have to nab him in the third if they really want him.

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Malik Jackson is one of the best 3 techs in the entire league.

Calais Campbell is one of the best Dline players in the league.  

You do everything you can to keep them.

If they keep it up, absolutely. We're talking about a hypothetical where Fowler is the better player. 

I personally don't see Malik going anywhere and Campbell most likely not, but he is getting older. Pf the DL, the only one I'm pretty sure wont be here after this year is Dareus

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Just a general question:

Why is it that when discussing DLs to purge, the talk always goes to Dareus as being the one to go?

Taking blkranger's figures at face value, Dareus' cap figure in 2019 is $5 million less than Malik Jackson.

When Dareus came in, he bolstered the run defense.  During his career, he's proven able to get to the QB, as evidenced by a 110  10 sack season and 36 career sacks.  By comparison, Malik Jackson has 29 career sacks.

Even though Dareus came into the league one year earlier, he's actually younger than Malik Jackson.

So what's the justification for the analysis that results in Dareus being scuttled before Jackson?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Just a general question:

Why is it that when discussing DLs to purge, the talk always goes to Dareus as being the one to go?

Taking blkranger's figures at face value, Dareus' cap figure in 2019 is $5 million less than Malik Jackson.

When Dareus came in, he bolstered the run defense.  During his career, he's proven able to get to the QB, as evidenced by a 110 sack season and 36 career sacks.  By comparison, Malik Jackson has 29 career sacks.

Even though Dareus came into the league one year earlier, he's actually younger than Malik Jackson.

So what's the justification for the analysis that results in Dareus being scuttled before Jackson?

My numbers came from over the cap, didn't look at dead money either so take that for what it's worth. 

Anyway, I guess my reasoning for Dareus over Malik is the pass rush ability. Malik is a much better interior pass rusher than Dareus. It's easier to replace a run stuffer than it is a pass rush. 

That's my opinion anyway.

---

IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Just a general question:

Why is it that when discussing DLs to purge, the talk always goes to Dareus as being the one to go?

Taking blkranger's figures at face value, Dareus' cap figure in 2019 is $5 million less than Malik Jackson.

When Dareus came in, he bolstered the run defense.  During his career, he's proven able to get to the QB, as evidenced by a 110 sack season and 36 career sacks.  By comparison, Malik Jackson has 29 career sacks.

Even though Dareus came into the league one year earlier, he's actually younger than Malik Jackson.

So what's the justification for the analysis that results in Dareus being scuttled before Jackson?

My numbers came from over the cap, didn't look at dead money either so take that for what it's worth. 

Anyway, I guess my reasoning for Dareus over Malik is the pass rush ability. Malik is a much better interior pass rusher than Dareus. It's easier to replace a run stuffer than it is a pass rush. 

That's my opinion anyway.

But what's the justification for saying Malik is a better pass rusher than Dareus?

I do not deny that Malik Jackson is a fine pass rusher. 

But the numbers do not reflect Malik Jackson being a better interior pass rusher than Dareus. 

In the playoffs this year, Dareus had more sacks (2) than Jackson (1).  As I indicated above, he has more career sacks than Jackson.  Average per year, they are about even, with the slight edge going to Dareus.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

My numbers came from over the cap, didn't look at dead money either so take that for what it's worth. 

Anyway, I guess my reasoning for Dareus over Malik is the pass rush ability. Malik is a much better interior pass rusher than Dareus. It's easier to replace a run stuffer than it is a pass rush. 

That's my opinion anyway.

But what's the justification for saying Malik is a better pass rusher than Dareus?

I do not deny that Malik Jackson is a fine pass rusher. 

But the numbers do not reflect Malik Jackson being a better interior pass rusher than Dareus. 

In the playoffs this year, Dareus had more sacks (2) than Jackson (1).  As I indicated above, he has more career sacks than Jackson.  Average per year, they are about even, with the slight edge going to Dareus.

Jackson is much more disruptive and creates more pressure than Dareus. He's been one of the best pass rushing interior players over the last few years. 

Dareus is an elite run stuffer but still can provide a pass rush. His sack numbers are good but as a starter he doesn't disrupt or cause pressure like Malik does. His job is to eat up blocks and let others get 1 v 1 matchups.

At his peak Dareus can do both. He's just more of a run stopper.

---

Dareus is the easiest player to replace of all players discussed.

In order:

1. Dareus
2. Church
3. Gibson

That's where I'd start.

---

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

But what's the justification for saying Malik is a better pass rusher than Dareus?

I do not deny that Malik Jackson is a fine pass rusher. 

But the numbers do not reflect Malik Jackson being a better interior pass rusher than Dareus. 

In the playoffs this year, Dareus had more sacks (2) than Jackson (1).  As I indicated above, he has more career sacks than Jackson.  Average per year, they are about even, with the slight edge going to Dareus.

Jackson is much more disruptive and creates more pressure than Dareus. He's been one of the best pass rushing interior players over the last few years. 

Dareus is an elite run stuffer but still can provide a pass rush. His sack numbers are good but as a starter he doesn't disrupt or cause pressure like Malik does. His job is to eat up blocks and let others get 1 v 1 matchups.  

At his peak Dareus can do both. He's just more of a run stopper.

So taking the assertion that Dareus can't rush the passer as well as Jackson at face value (I don't) then the question is, as far as DTs go, why is rushing the passer far more valuable than stopping the run?

In our losses to the Rams, Jets. and week 2 to the tacks, those teams ran all over us.  We were unable to stop them at all.

How is run defense less valuable than pass rushing when the lack of a run defense cost us three games?

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Dareus is the easiest player to replace of all players discussed.

Based on what?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I don't think it's smart to trade young pass rushers.  That's just me.

---

Just a general question:

Why is it that when discussing DLs to purge, the talk always goes to Dareus as being the one to go?

Taking blkranger's figures at face value, Dareus' cap figure in 2019 is $5 million less than Malik Jackson.

When Dareus came in, he bolstered the run defense.  During his career, he's proven able to get to the QB, as evidenced by a 110 sack season and 36 career sacks.  By comparison, Malik Jackson has 29 career sacks.

Even though Dareus came into the league one year earlier, he's actually younger than Malik Jackson.

So what's the justification for the analysis that results in Dareus being scuttled before Jackson?

There are a few reasons I look to Dareus before Jackson. 

The first is snap count. Jackson currently plays 25-30% more snaps than Dareus. That could change of course, but until we see what happens in the coming season there is some question of difference in value there. 

Then there's the question of role and which is more difficult to replace. Is Jackson's disruption a bit harder to replace than Dareus' run stuffing?  Not necessarily - and Dareus offers disruption as well - though he may need to be spelled more often. Still - I think Dareus' more primary role of gumming the middle vs the run may be easier to replace than Jackson's disruption. I have no evidence or stats to support that hunch, but it's my best guess with what I've observed.

---

Jackson is much more disruptive and creates more pressure than Dareus. He's been one of the best pass rushing interior players over the last few years. 

Dareus is an elite run stuffer but still can provide a pass rush. His sack numbers are good but as a starter he doesn't disrupt or cause pressure like Malik does. His job is to eat up blocks and let others get 1 v 1 matchups.  

At his peak Dareus can do both. He's just more of a run stopper.

So taking the assertion that Dareus can't rush the passer as well as Jackson at face value (I don't)  then the question is, as far as DTs go, why is rushing the passer far more valuable than stopping the run?

In our losses to the Rams, Jets. and week 2 to the tacks, those teams ran all over us.  We were unable to stop them at all.

How is run defense less valuable than pass rushing when the lack of a run defense cost us three games?

---

Dareus is the easiest player to replace of all players discussed.

Based on what?

His inability to rush the passer coupled with the out clause after 2019, it's fairly simple.

---

Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.

Jackson is much more disruptive and creates more pressure than Dareus. He's been one of the best pass rushing interior players over the last few years. 

Dareus is an elite run stuffer but still can provide a pass rush. His sack numbers are good but as a starter he doesn't disrupt or cause pressure like Malik does. His job is to eat up blocks and let others get 1 v 1 matchups.  

At his peak Dareus can do both. He's just more of a run stopper.

So taking the assertion that Dareus can't rush the passer as well as Jackson at face value (I don't)  then the question is, as far as DTs go, why is rushing the passer far more valuable than stopping the run?

In our losses to the Rams, Jets. and week 2 to the tacks, those teams ran all over us.  We were unable to stop them at all.

How is run defense less valuable than pass rushing when the lack of a run defense cost us three games?

Malik Jackson had 55 pressures in 2016, which was ranked top 5 out of interior players. In 2017 he had 64 pressures, which also ranked top 5.  He's one of the best pass rushers in the league , I'm not sure anyone would say the same about Dareus (even though I rate him as a player). 

Because it's a passing league now. Affecting the QB is much more important than being able to stop the run. Our run defense against the jets was god awful I agree. But there were a variety of reasons we lost those 3 games. Rams was mostly special teams , titans was every unit , jets was every unit.    

The majority of the teams in the playoffs this year and last year were below average run defenses. It's just not as crucial to victory as pass rushing+pass defense.

You could make an argument that Dareus makes us a more well rounded team than Malik but I'm just not willing to give up on an elite pass rusher for an elite run defender.

---

Just a general question:

Why is it that when discussing DLs to purge, the talk always goes to Dareus as being the one to go?

Taking blkranger's figures at face value, Dareus' cap figure in 2019 is $5 million less than Malik Jackson.

When Dareus came in, he bolstered the run defense.  During his career, he's proven able to get to the QB, as evidenced by a 110 sack season and 36 career sacks.  By comparison, Malik Jackson has 29 career sacks.

Even though Dareus came into the league one year earlier, he's actually younger than Malik Jackson.

So what's the justification for the analysis that results in Dareus being scuttled before Jackson?

There are a few reasons I look to Dareus before Jackson. 

The first is snap count. Jackson currently plays 25-30% more snaps than Dareus. That could change of course, but until we see what happens in the coming season there is some question of difference in value there. 

Then there's the question of role and which is more difficult to replace. Is Jackson's disruption a bit harder to replace than Dareus' run stuffing?  Not necessarily - and Dareus offers disruption as well - though he may need to be spelled more often. Still - I think Dareus' more primary role of gumming the middle vs the run may be easier to replace than Jackson's disruption. I have no evidence or stats to support that hunch, but it's my best guess with what I've observed.

Regarding the snap count, one explanation for the disparity is that Dareus had to learn the defense.  He arrived here in mid season.  I suspect given equal health, that disparity is reduced considerably.

Now I want to emphasize that this line of inquiry should not suggest I have any antipathy towards Malik Jackson.

I was very enthusiastic about the team's pursuit of him in free agency and I love what he brings to this defense.

However, I do not think the decision to dump Dareus over him is the reflexive, no brainer that many here are treating it.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So taking the assertion that Dareus can't rush the passer as well as Jackson at face value (I don't)  then the question is, as far as DTs go, why is rushing the passer far more valuable than stopping the run?

In our losses to the Rams, Jets. and week 2 to the tacks, those teams ran all over us.  We were unable to stop them at all.

How is run defense less valuable than pass rushing when the lack of a run defense cost us three games?

---

Based on what?

His inability to rush the passer coupled with the out clause after 2019, it's fairly simple.

That's a stretch.

---

So taking the assertion that Dareus can't rush the passer as well as Jackson at face value (I don't)  then the question is, as far as DTs go, why is rushing the passer far more valuable than stopping the run?

In our losses to the Rams, Jets. and week 2 to the tacks, those teams ran all over us.  We were unable to stop them at all.

How is run defense less valuable than pass rushing when the lack of a run defense cost us three games?

---

Based on what?

His inability to rush the passer coupled with the out clause after 2019, it's fairly simple.

But where are people getting this inability to rush the passer from?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Dareus is a good pass rusher. Just not on Maliks tier.

---

Dareus is a good pass rusher.  Just not on Maliks tier.

This is my thought as well

---

IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Dareus is a good pass rusher.  Just not on Maliks tier.

I'm still not sold on this, and here's why.

As I showed earlier, Dareus has more career sacks and a higher sacks per year average than Malik Jackson, although for all intents and purposes, on a per year average, they are pretty much even.

However, there are other things to factor into those numbers.

First, Malik Jackson played with two of the best pass rushers in the league in Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware (who was still effective even though he wasn't the guy he was in Dallas).  Dareus didn't have anyone close to Miller's caliber as a pass rusher in Buffalo.  Furthermore, Jackson's teams were better and generally played with more leads, thanks to Peyton Manning.  Dareus typically didn't have that luxury.

Second, Marcell Dareus' numbers were adversely impacted by the stupid scheme change from Schwartz's attacking 4-3 to Rex Ryan's 3-4.  Buffalo went from registering 54 sacks in 2014 (Schwartz's last year as defensive coordinator) to 21 in 2015 (Rex Ryan's first).  While there was improvement the next year, the fact is, that scheme change hurt Dareus' numbers.

But for these things, Dareus would have a larger edge in sack numbers, and that would alter the perception over who was more disruptive rushing the passer between Jackson and Dareus.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

There are a few reasons I look to Dareus before Jackson. 

The first is snap count. Jackson currently plays 25-30% more snaps than Dareus. That could change of course, but until we see what happens in the coming season there is some question of difference in value there. 

Then there's the question of role and which is more difficult to replace. Is Jackson's disruption a bit harder to replace than Dareus' run stuffing?  Not necessarily - and Dareus offers disruption as well - though he may need to be spelled more often. Still - I think Dareus' more primary role of gumming the middle vs the run may be easier to replace than Jackson's disruption. I have no evidence or stats to support that hunch, but it's my best guess with what I've observed.

Regarding the snap count, one explanation for the disparity is that Dareus had to learn the defense.  He arrived here in mid season.  I suspect given equal health, that disparity is reduced considerably.

Now I want to emphasize that this line of inquiry should not suggest I have any antipathy towards Malik Jackson.

I was very enthusiastic about the team's pursuit of him in free agency and I love what he brings to this defense.

However, I do not think the decision to dump Dareus over him is the reflexive, no brainer that many here are treating it.

I believe conditioning/stamina played as much of a role as learning the defense in 2017.  Dareus could conceivably come away from this offseason's rigors with improved conditioning that would make him available to take more snaps, but I don't see that as a given. 

I think you are absolutely right that it's not a no-brainer. I do tend to think the guys analyzing the tape in the F.O. when and if this type of decision is made will be able to rank value and determine who they can replace more readily. 
I'm merely offering my best guess as to who they'd target first, and suggesting that the coming season may lay bare an easy call, or at least make a tough call less tough.

---

Dareus is a good pass rusher.  Just not on Maliks tier.

I'm still not sold on this, and here's why.

As I showed earlier, Dareus has more career sacks and a higher sacks per year average than Malik Jackson, although for all intents and purposes, on a per year average, they are pretty much even.

However, there are other things to factor into those numbers.

First, Malik Jackson played with two of the best pass rushers in the league in Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware (who was still effective even though he wasn't the guy he was in Dallas).  Dareus didn't have anyone close to Miller's caliber as a pass rusher in Buffalo.  Furthermore, Jackson's teams were better and generally played with more leads, thanks to Peyton Manning.  Dareus typically didn't have that luxury.

Second, Marcell Dareus' numbers were adversely impacted by the stupid scheme change from Schwartz's attacking 4-3 to Rex Ryan's 3-4.  Buffalo went from registering 54 sacks in 2014 (Schwartz's last year as defensive coordinator) to 21 in 2015 (Rex Ryan's first).  While there was improvement the next year, the fact is, that scheme change hurt Dareus' numbers.

But for these things, Dareus would have a larger edge in sack numbers, and that would alter the perception over who was more disruptive rushing the passer between Jackson and Dareus.

Remember that Jackson has only played 3 seasons as a starter.  Pressures give a much better picture of how disruptive a player is on a down by down basis. In Dareus's best ever pass rushing season (2014) he had 35 pressures.   

It's kind of an odd argument becuase they play different roles and styles. Dareus is a guy who eats blocks and can still play provide some disruption. He's a 1 tech who can moonlight at the 3 due to his talent. Malik is a pure 3 tech who pins his ears back to disrupt. Like you mentioned in Rex Ryan's defense his job wasn't to pass rush. 

I'm not sure anyone would call Dareus an elite pass rushing interior player anymore. Malik is. And this is not to say Dareus is worthless or anything, he's a great player and has been one of the best tackles in the league bar a down year or two. Just if we're talking pure pass rushing ability he isn't on the same scale as Malik.

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