The only way to get rid of this problem once and and for all is to get him to say Mit Wobet..

I’ll be honest, I’ve no clue what you’re talking about.  But I’m glad I can express that in this thread.  Very briefly I googled it.  Seems like you social media-ers say all kinds of funky stuff that I don’t understand.  I finally figured out the [BLEEP] poster thing.  Maybe, with a collective effort, I can figure out how to send one of these electric mails.

Electric stamps.  Duhhhh!

---

I’ll be honest, I’ve no clue what you’re talking about.  But I’m glad I can express that in this thread.  Very briefly I googled it.  Seems like you social media-ers say all kinds of funky stuff that I don’t understand.  I finally figured out the [BLEEP] poster thing.  Maybe, with a collective effort, I can figure out how to send one of these electric mails.

Electric stamps.  Duhhhh!

Ugh!!! Seems so simple now!!  I’ll see if the Amazon’s have those electric stamp thingys. Thanks man!   I’m glad we have a thread we can help each other out with the little things. Thanks Tim Tebow!

---

Alot of the completion percentage increase is simply due to the short yardage West Coast Offense dink and duck.
So sure yeah 3 yard 5 yard pass, 10 yard pass increase the percentage.

But what Denver was running was read option/wildcat whatever you want to call it where the shortyardage was coming from Tebow,McGheee, etc. No reason to pass shortyardage when you can run and get yards and eat clock.  So his throws were all intermeidate to long throws which are lower completion percentages for everyone.

Once again you conveniently over look this in your analysis.

Let's take everything you say here completely at face value for the moment.

1.  The WCO principles to which you refer did not begin to spread throughout the league until after Bill Walsh won his first Super Bowl with the 49ers in 1981.  The more successful the 49ers were in the 80s, the more assistants got hired around the league like Mike Holmgren and Dennis Green.  They brought those principles to the various teams.  None of the three guys you mentioned benefitted from those principles, as Unitas and Namath played their entire careers before Walsh became head coach at San Francisco in 1979.  While teams didn't pass as much back in the 60s and 70s as they do now, the deep pass was a far more prominent role in pro offenses then.

2.  The WCO became so successful and so ubiquitous throughout football, many of its principles were incorporated into offenses even though they may not technically be West Coast Offenses.  Tebow's coach in Denver, Josh McDaniels, came from New England, where Brady dinked and dunked throughout the bulk of his career.  Even though Tebow may not have been in a WCO and may have used read option principles, to suggest the WCO had no influence on the philosophy on any  level is misguided and naive.


3.  Even assuming Tebow derived NO benefit whatsoever from the WCO principles you cite, it is beyond question he benefitted from playing his entire career under the 1978 rules changes.  Namath and Unitas retired from football before those changes were instituted, and most of Bradshaw's career was already over when those rules were implemented.  When those rules were implemented, Bradshaw won two more Super Bowls, including two Super Bowl MVPs for SB XIII and XIV.  Tebow?  Not so much.  Furthermore, Namath's, Unitas, and Bradshaw's receivers did NOT benefit from the anti concussion rules implemented by Tagliabue and Goodell.  There were no "defenseless receivers."  If you were a receiver and you jumped for a pass, you were liable to get blasted by a defender.  Tebow's receivers got far more protection.  There were far fewer protections for QBs back when they played.  Glancing blows to the head, etc. were not penalized.  Intentional grounding rules were for more restrictive for QBs than they have been since Tebow was in the league.  Back then, even if you were outside of the pocket/tackle box and you threw the ball beyond the line of scrimmage, you could still be called for intentional grounding if it was obvious you were trying to avoid the sack.  Tebow wasn't hindered by such an interpretation/enforcement of the rules.  During the Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw eras, the headslap-a move used prominently by Hall of Fame DE Deacon Jones-was legal.  So offensive linemen could not extend their arms to block nor could they hold the way they can now, defenders could pop them in the heads while rushing the passer.

Within that context, there is ZERO excuse for Tebow to have below a 50% completion rate.  That is reflected in the overwhelming lack of interest in him by the majority of NFL teams once his career in Denver was over.

He simply could not play the position effectively at the NFL level, which is why he was out of the league for nine years and is why he is trying out at TE now.  Tebow cultists' obdurate inability/refusal to grasp this causes much of the antipathy towards Tebow evident even now.

Nice try.
That's all fine and dandy but you are basically admitting that the West Coast Offense leads to higher cosmetic completion percentage. I mean it makes sense, 3, 5, 10 yard passes are much easier to throw and catch.  Even most of the long plays in the West Coast Offense came off 10-15 yard slants where Rice ran for 30-50 yards after the catch thus inflating the West Coast QB's passing yards.

The reason guys like Unitas, Namath and Bradshaw had low completion percentage is because they threw the long ball, not dink and dunk 4 yard passes.

Even your god, Peyton Manning was only a 56% passer over his first 575 passing attempts. And that was in a conventional West Coast principles system.

With Tebow, he was in a read option offense. There was no need to throw 3-5-7 yard dink passes because they could get that yardage on the ground while also eating clock and controlling time of possession.  Which means he was only throwing longer passes which correlates to lower completion percentage as was the case with Bradshaw, Namath, Unitas. I'm sure you can see that but don't want to admit it.

---

Body bag.

---

The only way to get rid of this problem once and and for all is to get him to say Mit Wobet..

I’ll be honest, I’ve no clue what you’re talking about.  But I’m glad I can express that in this thread.  Very briefly I googled it.  Seems like you social media-ers say all kinds of funky stuff that I don’t understand.  I finally figured out the [BLEEP] poster thing.  Maybe, with a collective effort, I can figure out how to send one of these electric mails.

Never read comic books as a kid?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mxyzptlk

---

Let's take everything you say here completely at face value for the moment.

1.  The WCO principles to which you refer did not begin to spread throughout the league until after Bill Walsh won his first Super Bowl with the 49ers in 1981.  The more successful the 49ers were in the 80s, the more assistants got hired around the league like Mike Holmgren and Dennis Green.  They brought those principles to the various teams.  None of the three guys you mentioned benefitted from those principles, as Unitas and Namath played their entire careers before Walsh became head coach at San Francisco in 1979.  While teams didn't pass as much back in the 60s and 70s as they do now, the deep pass was a far more prominent role in pro offenses then.

2.  The WCO became so successful and so ubiquitous throughout football, many of its principles were incorporated into offenses even though they may not technically be West Coast Offenses.  Tebow's coach in Denver, Josh McDaniels, came from New England, where Brady dinked and dunked throughout the bulk of his career.  Even though Tebow may not have been in a WCO and may have used read option principles, to suggest the WCO had no influence on the philosophy on any  level is misguided and naive.


3.  Even assuming Tebow derived NO benefit whatsoever from the WCO principles you cite, it is beyond question he benefitted from playing his entire career under the 1978 rules changes.  Namath and Unitas retired from football before those changes were instituted, and most of Bradshaw's career was already over when those rules were implemented.  When those rules were implemented, Bradshaw won two more Super Bowls, including two Super Bowl MVPs for SB XIII and XIV.  Tebow?  Not so much.  Furthermore, Namath's, Unitas, and Bradshaw's receivers did NOT benefit from the anti concussion rules implemented by Tagliabue and Goodell.  There were no "defenseless receivers."  If you were a receiver and you jumped for a pass, you were liable to get blasted by a defender.  Tebow's receivers got far more protection.  There were far fewer protections for QBs back when they played.  Glancing blows to the head, etc. were not penalized.  Intentional grounding rules were for more restrictive for QBs than they have been since Tebow was in the league.  Back then, even if you were outside of the pocket/tackle box and you threw the ball beyond the line of scrimmage, you could still be called for intentional grounding if it was obvious you were trying to avoid the sack.  Tebow wasn't hindered by such an interpretation/enforcement of the rules.  During the Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw eras, the headslap-a move used prominently by Hall of Fame DE Deacon Jones-was legal.  So offensive linemen could not extend their arms to block nor could they hold the way they can now, defenders could pop them in the heads while rushing the passer.

Within that context, there is ZERO excuse for Tebow to have below a 50% completion rate.  That is reflected in the overwhelming lack of interest in him by the majority of NFL teams once his career in Denver was over.

He simply could not play the position effectively at the NFL level, which is why he was out of the league for nine years and is why he is trying out at TE now.  Tebow cultists' obdurate inability/refusal to grasp this causes much of the antipathy towards Tebow evident even now.

Nice try.
That's all fine and dandy but you are basically admitting that the West Coast Offense leads to higher cosmetic completion percentage. I mean it makes sense, 3, 5, 10 yard passes are much easier to throw and catch.  Even most of the long plays in the West Coast Offense came off 10-15 yard slants where Rice ran for 30-50 yards after the catch thus inflating the West Coast QB's passing yards.

The reason guys like Unitas, Namath and Bradshaw had low completion percentage is because they threw the long ball, not dink and dunk 4 yard passes.

Even your god, Peyton Manning was only a 56% passer over his first 575 passing attempts. And that was in a conventional West Coast principles system.

With Tebow, he was in a read option offense. There was no need to throw 3-5-7 yard dink passes because they could get that yardage on the ground while also eating clock and controlling time of possession.  Which means he was only throwing longer passes which correlates to lower completion percentage as was the case with Bradshaw, Namath, Unitas. I'm sure you can see that but don't want to admit it.

First, I never denied the West Coast Offense places an emphasis on shorter passes.  I never tried to hide or minimize that fact.  I expressly state it here.  Now what?

Secondly, the prevalence of the deep pass in the pre WCO erais only ONE reason why their completion percentages are low.  The rules pre-dating the 1978 rules changes had an adverse impact on the passing game, including completion percentage.  Not that Tebow has that to blame.

Furthermore, how did Peyton Manning become my "god?"  Just because I don't worship Tebow doesn't mean i worship Peyton Manning.  That said, to whatever extent you are an NFL fan who puts NFL players on pedestals, Peyton Manning is far more worthy of the adulation than Tebow.  You brought up his completion percentage, indicating that over his first 576 passes (i.e. very early in his career) his completion percentage was low.  Putting aside, for the moment, that Manning did not play in a WCO under Jim freaking Mora and Tony freaking Dungy (two of the most offensively conservative coaches of the modern era), his completion percentage, as low as it was for those 576 passes (taking your representation at face value) his completion percentage during that time was still nearly TEN points higher than Tebow's. 

I'm sorry, but what sort of hallucinogen are you on to think Tebow comes out ahead or even remotely favorable in any comparison to Peyton Manning-of ALL people?!? You do this after grouping Tebow with Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw?!? Seriously?!?

You have seriously argued that the demands of his read option system in Denver, and NOT his deficiencies in accuracy, are solely to blame for Tebow's low career completion percentage.  If this is true, why weren't teams running more conventional offenses that needed a good QB willing to bring him aboard to run their offenses?  You know how many teams have added QBs since Tebow last played the position?!?  Jacksonville alone added Blake Bortles, Nick Foles, Gardner Minshew and Trevor Lawrence just off the top of my head.  The tacks added Marcus Mariota and Tannehill, among others since Tebow became available.  Exclude teams with GOAT QBs like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Saints, Seahawks and Chargers.  Throw in Denver since they brought in an injured aging and declining Peyton Manning in to replace him.  That leaves some 25 other teams that have added QBs at one point or another, that don't run that read option, that opted NOT to bring in Tebow and give him a shot at starting QB.

To what do you attribute that?

Another troubling line of related inquiry is why McDaniels ran that offense in the first place.  He had his success in New England running an offense that is the antithesis of the read option.  Quarterback stands in the pocket and largely dinks and dunks all game long.  That's the approach that got McDaniels his shot at a head coaching gig.  He had success coaching a GOAT QB with that approach.  So why would he abandon that approach when he drafted Tebow?  He wanted to maximize Tebow's chances for success.  Tebow ran a lot of read option in college.  It was an offense tailor made for Tebow's skillset.  But even with that offense tailored to him, he produced mediocrity and non interest in his skillset around the rest of the league.  Mcdaniels was subsequently fired for it and has not been a head coach since.

Think about that for a minute.

Tebow could not produce at a competent level in an offense designed with him in mind.  The coach that gambled the biggest on him-McDaniels-crashed and burned.  Given this, why would any other coach-one NOT running that allegedly QB unfriendly system-bring Tebowin to start for them?

Why would any sane football fan, for that matter?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I’ll be honest, I’ve no clue what you’re talking about.  But I’m glad I can express that in this thread.  Very briefly I googled it.  Seems like you social media-ers say all kinds of funky stuff that I don’t understand.  I finally figured out the [BLEEP] poster thing.  Maybe, with a collective effort, I can figure out how to send one of these electric mails.

Never read comic books as a kid?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mxyzptlk

No, not really. Wasn’t into comics as much as I was sports.   Plus, My parents weren’t exactly where they are at today when I was young.  Now, ricks and sticks? Yeah I had a lot of fun with those growing up.  And if I’m correct, you were a kid a hand full of years before I was.  Not by too much, but enough, apparently.

---

On Undisputed, Chris Broussard just said Tebow has about a 70% chance of making the team. Lavar Arrington said he has a 1% chance of making the team. Arrington went on to say all that character stuff doesn’t matter inside a pro locker room.

I can’t wait until Sunday night to see these guys in action.

---

Let's take everything you say here completely at face value for the moment.

1.  The WCO principles to which you refer did not begin to spread throughout the league until after Bill Walsh won his first Super Bowl with the 49ers in 1981.  The more successful the 49ers were in the 80s, the more assistants got hired around the league like Mike Holmgren and Dennis Green.  They brought those principles to the various teams.  None of the three guys you mentioned benefitted from those principles, as Unitas and Namath played their entire careers before Walsh became head coach at San Francisco in 1979.  While teams didn't pass as much back in the 60s and 70s as they do now, the deep pass was a far more prominent role in pro offenses then.

2.  The WCO became so successful and so ubiquitous throughout football, many of its principles were incorporated into offenses even though they may not technically be West Coast Offenses.  Tebow's coach in Denver, Josh McDaniels, came from New England, where Brady dinked and dunked throughout the bulk of his career.  Even though Tebow may not have been in a WCO and may have used read option principles, to suggest the WCO had no influence on the philosophy on any  level is misguided and naive.


3.  Even assuming Tebow derived NO benefit whatsoever from the WCO principles you cite, it is beyond question he benefitted from playing his entire career under the 1978 rules changes.  Namath and Unitas retired from football before those changes were instituted, and most of Bradshaw's career was already over when those rules were implemented.  When those rules were implemented, Bradshaw won two more Super Bowls, including two Super Bowl MVPs for SB XIII and XIV.  Tebow?  Not so much.  Furthermore, Namath's, Unitas, and Bradshaw's receivers did NOT benefit from the anti concussion rules implemented by Tagliabue and Goodell.  There were no "defenseless receivers."  If you were a receiver and you jumped for a pass, you were liable to get blasted by a defender.  Tebow's receivers got far more protection.  There were far fewer protections for QBs back when they played.  Glancing blows to the head, etc. were not penalized.  Intentional grounding rules were for more restrictive for QBs than they have been since Tebow was in the league.  Back then, even if you were outside of the pocket/tackle box and you threw the ball beyond the line of scrimmage, you could still be called for intentional grounding if it was obvious you were trying to avoid the sack.  Tebow wasn't hindered by such an interpretation/enforcement of the rules.  During the Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw eras, the headslap-a move used prominently by Hall of Fame DE Deacon Jones-was legal.  So offensive linemen could not extend their arms to block nor could they hold the way they can now, defenders could pop them in the heads while rushing the passer.

Within that context, there is ZERO excuse for Tebow to have below a 50% completion rate.  That is reflected in the overwhelming lack of interest in him by the majority of NFL teams once his career in Denver was over.

He simply could not play the position effectively at the NFL level, which is why he was out of the league for nine years and is why he is trying out at TE now.  Tebow cultists' obdurate inability/refusal to grasp this causes much of the antipathy towards Tebow evident even now.

Nice try.
That's all fine and dandy but you are basically admitting that the West Coast Offense leads to higher cosmetic completion percentage. I mean it makes sense, 3, 5, 10 yard passes are much easier to throw and catch.  Even most of the long plays in the West Coast Offense came off 10-15 yard slants where Rice ran for 30-50 yards after the catch thus inflating the West Coast QB's passing yards.

The reason guys like Unitas, Namath and Bradshaw had low completion percentage is because they threw the long ball, not dink and dunk 4 yard passes.

Even your god, Peyton Manning was only a 56% passer over his first 575 passing attempts. And that was in a conventional West Coast principles system.

With Tebow, he was in a read option offense. There was no need to throw 3-5-7 yard dink passes because they could get that yardage on the ground while also eating clock and controlling time of possession.  Which means he was only throwing longer passes which correlates to lower completion percentage as was the case with Bradshaw, Namath, Unitas. I'm sure you can see that but don't want to admit it.

Obtuse much?  Geez!

---

Nice try.
That's all fine and dandy but you are basically admitting that the West Coast Offense leads to higher cosmetic completion percentage. I mean it makes sense, 3, 5, 10 yard passes are much easier to throw and catch.  Even most of the long plays in the West Coast Offense came off 10-15 yard slants where Rice ran for 30-50 yards after the catch thus inflating the West Coast QB's passing yards.

The reason guys like Unitas, Namath and Bradshaw had low completion percentage is because they threw the long ball, not dink and dunk 4 yard passes.

Even your god, Peyton Manning was only a 56% passer over his first 575 passing attempts. And that was in a conventional West Coast principles system.

With Tebow, he was in a read option offense. There was no need to throw 3-5-7 yard dink passes because they could get that yardage on the ground while also eating clock and controlling time of possession.  Which means he was only throwing longer passes which correlates to lower completion percentage as was the case with Bradshaw, Namath, Unitas. I'm sure you can see that but don't want to admit it.

First, I never denied the West Coast Offense places an emphasis on shorter passes.  I never tried to hide or minimize that fact.  I expressly state it here.  Now what?

Secondly, the prevalence of the deep pass in the pre WCO erais only ONE reason why their completion percentages are low.  The rules pre-dating the 1978 rules changes had an adverse impact on the passing game, including completion percentage.  Not that Tebow has that to blame.

Furthermore, how did Peyton Manning become my "god?"  Just because I don't worship Tebow doesn't mean i worship Peyton Manning.  That said, to whatever extent you are an NFL fan who puts NFL players on pedestals, Peyton Manning is far more worthy of the adulation than Tebow.  You brought up his completion percentage, indicating that over his first 576 passes (i.e. very early in his career) his completion percentage was low.  Putting aside, for the moment, that Manning did not play in a WCO under Jim freaking Mora and Tony freaking Dungy (two of the most offensively conservative coaches of the modern era), his completion percentage, as low as it was for those 576 passes (taking your representation at face value) his completion percentage during that time was still nearly TEN points higher than Tebow's. 

I'm sorry, but what sort of hallucinogen are you on to think Tebow comes out ahead or even remotely favorable in any comparison to Peyton Manning-of ALL people?!?  You do this after grouping Tebow with Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw?!?  Seriously?!?

You have seriously argued that the demands of his read option system in Denver, and NOT his deficiencies in accuracy, are solely to blame for Tebow's low career completion percentage.  If this is true, why weren't teams running more conventional offenses that needed a good QB willing to bring him aboard to run their offenses?  You know how many teams have added QBs since Tebow last played the position?!?  Jacksonville alone added Blake Bortles, Nick Foles, Gardner Minshew and Trevor Lawrence just off the top of my head.  The tacks added Marcus Mariota and Tannehill, among others since Tebow became available.  Exclude teams with GOAT QBs like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Saints, Seahawks and Chargers.  Throw in Denver since they brought in an injured aging and declining Peyton Manning in to replace him.  That leaves some 25 other teams that have added QBs at one point or another, that don't run that read option, that opted NOT to bring in Tebow and give him a shot at starting QB.

To what do you attribute that?

Another troubling line of related inquiry is why McDaniels ran that offense in the first place.  He had his success in New England running an offense that is the antithesis of the read option.  Quarterback stands in the pocket and largely dinks and dunks all game long.  That's the approach that got McDaniels his shot at a head coaching gig.  He had success coaching a GOAT QB with that approach.  So why would he abandon that approach when he drafted Tebow?  He wanted to maximize Tebow's chances for success.  Tebow ran a lot of read option in college.  It was an offense tailor made for Tebow's skillset.  But even with that offense tailored to him, he produced mediocrity and non interest in his skillset around the rest of the league.  Mcdaniels was subsequently fired for it and has not been a head coach since.

Think about that for a minute.

Tebow could not produce at a competent level in an offense designed with him in mind.  The coach that gambled the biggest on him-McDaniels-crashed and burned.  Given this, why would any other coach-one NOT running that allegedly QB unfriendly system-bring Tebowin to start for them?

Why would any sane football fan, for that matter?

This actually just shows that with all the facts in your big brain super computer that something is off. Because McDaniels was fired in 2010 and Tebow didn't take over from Kyle Orton till 2011.  It was John Fox and Adam Gase in 2011 who put in the read option offense tailored to Tim Tebow's running ability, elite 6.66 3 Cone and Willis Magahee's superior running game.

Peyton Manning had a 56.7% completion percentage over his first 575 attempts along with 26 TDS and 28 INT (4.9 INT rate) with a 3-13 record.
Tim Tebow has 362 attempts in his entire career. 17 TD 9 INT (2.5 INT rate) with a 7-4 record in 2011 and a playoff victory and game winning passing TD over the AFC champions.
So as you can see had he never had the opportunity to develop or improve because he was blackballed and sabotaged by Elway and Butt Fumble. But he had the same stage of development as Peyton Manning in those first 572 pass attempts.

You ever read the bible, Bullseye?

---

First, I never denied the West Coast Offense places an emphasis on shorter passes.  I never tried to hide or minimize that fact.  I expressly state it here.  Now what?

Secondly, the prevalence of the deep pass in the pre WCO erais only ONE reason why their completion percentages are low.  The rules pre-dating the 1978 rules changes had an adverse impact on the passing game, including completion percentage.  Not that Tebow has that to blame.

Furthermore, how did Peyton Manning become my "god?"  Just because I don't worship Tebow doesn't mean i worship Peyton Manning.  That said, to whatever extent you are an NFL fan who puts NFL players on pedestals, Peyton Manning is far more worthy of the adulation than Tebow.  You brought up his completion percentage, indicating that over his first 576 passes (i.e. very early in his career) his completion percentage was low.  Putting aside, for the moment, that Manning did not play in a WCO under Jim freaking Mora and Tony freaking Dungy (two of the most offensively conservative coaches of the modern era), his completion percentage, as low as it was for those 576 passes (taking your representation at face value) his completion percentage during that time was still nearly TEN points higher than Tebow's. 

I'm sorry, but what sort of hallucinogen are you on to think Tebow comes out ahead or even remotely favorable in any comparison to Peyton Manning-of ALL people?!?  You do this after grouping Tebow with Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw?!?  Seriously?!?

You have seriously argued that the demands of his read option system in Denver, and NOT his deficiencies in accuracy, are solely to blame for Tebow's low career completion percentage.  If this is true, why weren't teams running more conventional offenses that needed a good QB willing to bring him aboard to run their offenses?  You know how many teams have added QBs since Tebow last played the position?!?  Jacksonville alone added Blake Bortles, Nick Foles, Gardner Minshew and Trevor Lawrence just off the top of my head.  The tacks added Marcus Mariota and Tannehill, among others since Tebow became available.  Exclude teams with GOAT QBs like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Saints, Seahawks and Chargers.  Throw in Denver since they brought in an injured aging and declining Peyton Manning in to replace him.  That leaves some 25 other teams that have added QBs at one point or another, that don't run that read option, that opted NOT to bring in Tebow and give him a shot at starting QB.

To what do you attribute that?

Another troubling line of related inquiry is why McDaniels ran that offense in the first place.  He had his success in New England running an offense that is the antithesis of the read option.  Quarterback stands in the pocket and largely dinks and dunks all game long.  That's the approach that got McDaniels his shot at a head coaching gig.  He had success coaching a GOAT QB with that approach.  So why would he abandon that approach when he drafted Tebow?  He wanted to maximize Tebow's chances for success.  Tebow ran a lot of read option in college.  It was an offense tailor made for Tebow's skillset.  But even with that offense tailored to him, he produced mediocrity and non interest in his skillset around the rest of the league.  Mcdaniels was subsequently fired for it and has not been a head coach since.

Think about that for a minute.

Tebow could not produce at a competent level in an offense designed with him in mind.  The coach that gambled the biggest on him-McDaniels-crashed and burned.  Given this, why would any other coach-one NOT running that allegedly QB unfriendly system-bring Tebowin to start for them?

Why would any sane football fan, for that matter?

This actually just shows that with all the facts in your big brain super computer that something is off. Because McDaniels was fired in 2010 and Tebow didn't take over from Kyle Orton till 2011.  It was John Fox and Adam Gase in 2011 who put in the read option offense tailored to Tim Tebow's running ability, elite 6.66 3 Cone and Willis Magahee's superior running game.

Peyton Manning had a 56.7% completion percentage over his first 575 attempts along with 26 TDS and 28 INT (4.9 INT rate) with a 3-13 record.
Tim Tebow has 362 attempts in his entire career. 17 TD 9 INT (2.5 INT rate) with a 7-4 record in 2011 and a playoff victory and game winning passing TD over the AFC champions.
So as you can see had he never had the opportunity to develop or improve because he was blackballed and sabotaged by Elway and Butt Fumble. But he had the same stage of development as Peyton Manning in those first 572 pass attempts.

You ever read the bible, Bullseye?

You're an absolute clown.  The man cannot throw the forward pass better than a HS QB and you're out here trying to argue stats.

---

First, I never denied the West Coast Offense places an emphasis on shorter passes.  I never tried to hide or minimize that fact.  I expressly state it here.  Now what?

Secondly, the prevalence of the deep pass in the pre WCO erais only ONE reason why their completion percentages are low.  The rules pre-dating the 1978 rules changes had an adverse impact on the passing game, including completion percentage.  Not that Tebow has that to blame.

Furthermore, how did Peyton Manning become my "god?"  Just because I don't worship Tebow doesn't mean i worship Peyton Manning.  That said, to whatever extent you are an NFL fan who puts NFL players on pedestals, Peyton Manning is far more worthy of the adulation than Tebow.  You brought up his completion percentage, indicating that over his first 576 passes (i.e. very early in his career) his completion percentage was low.  Putting aside, for the moment, that Manning did not play in a WCO under Jim freaking Mora and Tony freaking Dungy (two of the most offensively conservative coaches of the modern era), his completion percentage, as low as it was for those 576 passes (taking your representation at face value) his completion percentage during that time was still nearly TEN points higher than Tebow's. 

I'm sorry, but what sort of hallucinogen are you on to think Tebow comes out ahead or even remotely favorable in any comparison to Peyton Manning-of ALL people?!?  You do this after grouping Tebow with Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw?!?  Seriously?!?

You have seriously argued that the demands of his read option system in Denver, and NOT his deficiencies in accuracy, are solely to blame for Tebow's low career completion percentage.  If this is true, why weren't teams running more conventional offenses that needed a good QB willing to bring him aboard to run their offenses?  You know how many teams have added QBs since Tebow last played the position?!?  Jacksonville alone added Blake Bortles, Nick Foles, Gardner Minshew and Trevor Lawrence just off the top of my head.  The tacks added Marcus Mariota and Tannehill, among others since Tebow became available.  Exclude teams with GOAT QBs like the Colts, Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Saints, Seahawks and Chargers.  Throw in Denver since they brought in an injured aging and declining Peyton Manning in to replace him.  That leaves some 25 other teams that have added QBs at one point or another, that don't run that read option, that opted NOT to bring in Tebow and give him a shot at starting QB.

To what do you attribute that?

Another troubling line of related inquiry is why McDaniels ran that offense in the first place.  He had his success in New England running an offense that is the antithesis of the read option.  Quarterback stands in the pocket and largely dinks and dunks all game long.  That's the approach that got McDaniels his shot at a head coaching gig.  He had success coaching a GOAT QB with that approach.  So why would he abandon that approach when he drafted Tebow?  He wanted to maximize Tebow's chances for success.  Tebow ran a lot of read option in college.  It was an offense tailor made for Tebow's skillset.  But even with that offense tailored to him, he produced mediocrity and non interest in his skillset around the rest of the league.  Mcdaniels was subsequently fired for it and has not been a head coach since.

Think about that for a minute.

Tebow could not produce at a competent level in an offense designed with him in mind.  The coach that gambled the biggest on him-McDaniels-crashed and burned.  Given this, why would any other coach-one NOT running that allegedly QB unfriendly system-bring Tebowin to start for them?

Why would any sane football fan, for that matter?

This actually just shows that with all the facts in your big brain super computer that something is off. Because McDaniels was fired in 2010 and Tebow didn't take over from Kyle Orton till 2011.  It was John Fox and Adam Gase in 2011 who put in the read option offense tailored to Tim Tebow's running ability, elite 6.66 3 Cone and Willis Magahee's superior running game.

Peyton Manning had a 56.7% completion percentage over his first 575 attempts along with 26 TDS and 28 INT (4.9 INT rate) with a 3-13 record.
Tim Tebow has 362 attempts in his entire career. 17 TD 9 INT (2.5 INT rate) with a 7-4 record in 2011 and a playoff victory and game winning passing TD over the AFC champions.
So as you can see had he never had the opportunity to develop or improve because he was blackballed and sabotaged by Elway and Butt Fumble. But he had the same stage of development as Peyton Manning in those first 572 pass attempts.

You ever read the bible, Bullseye?

Even accepting that at face value, how does that change the analysis at all to Tebow's benefit?

John Fox reached the Super Bowl with Carolina NOT running a read option offense.  He abandoned the conventional offense he ran to run a read option to accommodate Tebow.  Under that offense that was still crafted to his specific skill set, Tebow still produced lackluster at best numbers.  Fox saw the results and decided to dump Tebow.  The rest of the league saw the results and refused to give Tebow another shot at starting QB.

Peyton Manning was considered one of the best all time QB prospects when he was drafted.  He went to a bad team, but had the physical tools to succeed with patience.  Tebow was never considered a great QB prospect coming out the way Manning was-at least not by scouts and GMs interested in keeping their jobs.  Perhaps after two years of film, Elway decided he wasn't QB material and decided to move on.  Not to "blackball" him, but to improve the position.  Were the other 31 teams in on the blackball?  Are all QBs whose careers flamed out quickly deserving of years of development, or are teams not capable of determining after the fact that they missed on a prospect?  Johnny Manziel, Akili Smith, Josh Rosen, Cade McNown, among others, all got less than Peyton Manning's 576 attempts.  Were they all "blackballed and sabotaged?"  Did they deserve more opportunity to show their stuff?  What distinguishes Tebow from them (besides Tebow having a lower completion percentage then all of them except Akili Smith)?

Your response to me was the message board equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...wholly irrespective of whether I read the Bible.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

This actually just shows that with all the facts in your big brain super computer that something is off. Because McDaniels was fired in 2010 and Tebow didn't take over from Kyle Orton till 2011.  It was John Fox and Adam Gase in 2011 who put in the read option offense tailored to Tim Tebow's running ability, elite 6.66 3 Cone and Willis Magahee's superior running game.

Peyton Manning had a 56.7% completion percentage over his first 575 attempts along with 26 TDS and 28 INT (4.9 INT rate) with a 3-13 record.
Tim Tebow has 362 attempts in his entire career. 17 TD 9 INT (2.5 INT rate) with a 7-4 record in 2011 and a playoff victory and game winning passing TD over the AFC champions.
So as you can see had he never had the opportunity to develop or improve because he was blackballed and sabotaged by Elway and Butt Fumble. But he had the same stage of development as Peyton Manning in those first 572 pass attempts.

You ever read the bible, Bullseye?

Your response to me was the message board equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic...wholly irrespective of whether I read the Bible.

There's a passage that I got memorized, seems appropiate for this situation: Ezekiel 25,17. "The path of the righteous man is beset of all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil me. Blessed is he who, in the name of the charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

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Say Tebow ONE MORE [BLEEP] TIME!

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Say Tebow ONE MORE [BLEEP] TIME!

Does he look like a [BLEEP]?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

ESPN’s Michael DiRocco boldly predicted that the former Florida Gator will make the roster as he’s seen a lot of targets in practice.

Tim Tebow will make the roster as a tight end.

Tebow had the second-most catches of any tight end in 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 during the first four days of camp. His seven receptions trail only Ben Ellefson (nine). A couple caveats: James O’Shaughnessy missed time with an ankle injury, and the defense was not allowed to play press coverage or go after throws. Still, the 33-year-old Tebow — who last played in a regular-season NFL game in 2012 — hasn’t had a drop, and it shows that he has a good grasp of the offense. He just needs to hold his own as a blocker once the pads go on and he’ll make the 53-man roster. — Michael DiRocco

https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2021/08...al-roster/

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Electric stamps.  Duhhhh!

Ugh!!! Seems so simple now!!  I’ll see if the Amazon’s have those electric stamp thingys. Thanks man!   I’m glad we have a thread we can help each other out with the little things. Thanks Tim Tebow!

See? He does bring people together and solves problems in real time without even showing up. 

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ESPN’s Michael DiRocco boldly predicted that the former Florida Gator will make the roster as he’s seen a lot of targets in practice.

Tim Tebow will make the roster as a tight end.

Tebow had the second-most catches of any tight end in 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 during the first four days of camp. His seven receptions trail only Ben Ellefson (nine). A couple caveats: James O’Shaughnessy missed time with an ankle injury, and the defense was not allowed to play press coverage or go after throws. Still, the 33-year-old Tebow — who last played in a regular-season NFL game in 2012 — hasn’t had a drop, and it shows that he has a good grasp of the offense. He just needs to hold his own as a blocker once the pads go on and he’ll make the 53-man roster. — Michael DiRocco

https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2021/08...al-roster/

The pads are on... and he didn't... and when he goes against a DE or LB he's going to get pancaked.

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This is the ultimate definition of #BecauseJaguars......

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Can we at least rename the thread to something like Potpourri? Seems there's a little bit of everything to waste 15 minutes reading in here. Very little actual Tebow substance between the talks of quarterbacks, west coast offenses, and bible verses.

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