Can we at least rename the thread to something like Potpourri? Seems there's a little bit of everything to waste 15 minutes reading in here. Very little actual Tebow substance between the talks of quarterbacks, west coast offenses, and bible verses.

There's been very little discussion about Tebow and the position he is going out for...period.  Well, at least from one 'side'.

---

Who?

Timmah as he's known to the faithful.

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Can we at least rename the thread to something like Potpourri? Seems there's a little bit of everything to waste 15 minutes reading in here. Very little actual Tebow substance between the talks of quarterbacks, west coast offenses, and bible verses.

There's been very little discussion about Tebow and the position he is going out for...period.  Well, at least from one 'side'.

Yeah... It's really not surprising that the thread gets derailed by the usual suspects but I wonder why the mods don't keep it in check better.

To stay on topic myself, IF Tebow makes the roster, and I am doubtful he does at this point, who cares really? I mean the dude will be 4th string or whatever and won't be preventing us from rostering some great tight end currently unemployed.

People just love to [BLEEP] and argue about the guy. It's laughable really.

If our TE group is Manhertz, James O, Ertz (fresh rumors), and any combination of Tebow or other fringe guys what's the problem? What's the debate? That he and Urban are conspiring to keep Kap unemployed? He's gonna take reps from TLaw? That the next Kittle is going to be relegated to our PS?
Give me a break. Tebow or not, our TE group won't be "great".

We literally have 100+ pages of banter supposedly centered on a guy who will maybe be #45-53 on the roster.

What a joke.

---

Leave the religion out of the discussion.

---

There's been very little discussion about Tebow and the position he is going out for...period.  Well, at least from one 'side'.

Yeah... It's really not surprising that the thread gets derailed by the usual suspects but I wonder why the mods don't keep it in check better.

To stay on topic myself, IF Tebow makes the roster, and I am doubtful he does at this point, who cares really? I mean the dude will be 4th string or whatever and won't be preventing us from rostering some great tight end currently unemployed.

People just love to [BLEEP] and argue about the guy. It's laughable really.

If our TE group is Manhertz, James O, Ertz (fresh rumors), and any combination of Tebow or other fringe guys what's the problem? What's the debate? That he and Urban are conspiring to keep Kap unemployed? He's gonna take reps from TLaw? That the next Kittle is going to be relegated to our PS?
Give me a break. Tebow or not, our TE group won't be "great".

We literally have 100+ pages of banter supposedly centered on a guy who will maybe be #45-53 on the roster.

What a joke.

We are keeping it in check, this thread is about the Tebow Circus in all its glory. As long as he's on the roster this stuff is germane.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

There's been very little discussion about Tebow and the position he is going out for...period.  Well, at least from one 'side'.

Yeah... It's really not surprising that the thread gets derailed by the usual suspects but I wonder why the mods don't keep it in check better.

To stay on topic myself, IF Tebow makes the roster, and I am doubtful he does at this point, who cares really? I mean the dude will be 4th string or whatever and won't be preventing us from rostering some great tight end currently unemployed.

People just love to [BLEEP] and argue about the guy. It's laughable really.

If our TE group is Manhertz, James O, Ertz (fresh rumors), and any combination of Tebow or other fringe guys what's the problem? What's the debate? That he and Urban are conspiring to keep Kap unemployed? He's gonna take reps from TLaw? That the next Kittle is going to be relegated to our PS?
Give me a break. Tebow or not, our TE group won't be "great".

We literally have 100+ pages of banter supposedly centered on a guy who will maybe be #45-53 on the roster.

What a joke.

Actually we have spoken quite substantively about Tebow. To the extent he had a career, it has been at QB. and his staunchest supporters continue to defend the indefensible with Tebow's career to date.  He is now at 5th string TE.  He caught TDs in minicamp back in June before the pass came on.  Since then, he got blanked in padded practices by Wingard and Cisco.  What is left to discuss of Tebow at TE?

His actual qualifications for the job?

That subject was tackled several pages back.  Considering he played QB all his career, sat out of football for nine years only to switch to the position now, and he is considerably smaller  than the typical TE, the discussion was predictably short.

I suppose I could post a clip from Undisputed from a day or so ago where they discuss Tebow's chances of making the roster, and former LB Lavar Arrington trashed Tebow's route running here.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5yGqq3GRDBM

But how much mileage would we really get out of that?

For me the question is when else in team history  has anyone on this board clamored to talk about a 5th string anything two weeks into camp?!?  What has Tebow done at the position to warrant such a lengthy discourse before the first preseason game?

If any other QB NOT named Tebow was brought to the Jaguars in June under similaar circumstances, what would be the extent of the discussion?

He's a camp arm...period.

A kicker or punter?

A Campe leg...full stop.

Any other position? Camp fodder.

There would be no demand for substantive discussion on that player unless all of the reports from camp showed him to make play after play and that continued when the games were played.

Why in the hell should Tebow be any different?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Why in the hell should Tebow be any different?

The answer is simple:  he's a hometown hero to many people.  He's a Jacksonville kid who had a heroic college career for many people's favorite college team.  And, he's a public Christian.  For many fans on this board, one or more of the above rankle them to no end.  It's why they spend inordinate time tearing the guy down.  And yes, the mindless T-bots are just as annoying as the Tebow haters.  Both groups are annoying.  But the sanctimony of the supposed NFL purists regarding Tebow!  They are just fronting.  They have a visceral dislike for the player.  It's not reasoned.  Reason alone does not motivate people to post 110+ pages of pseudo-analysis hating on a player or his fans.

And, yes, I am pulling to him to make the last TE roster spot just to see the haters lose their minds.  I want the complainers and negativity spewers to continue having something to wail about while the rest of us enjoy the most hope we've had for this team in 20 years.

---

Fix the O-Line!

Why in the hell should Tebow be any different?

The answer is simple:  he's a hometown hero to many people.  He's a Jacksonville kid who had a heroic college career for many people's favorite college team.  And, he's a public Christian.  For many fans on this board, one or more of the above rankle them to no end.  It's why they spend inordinate time tearing the guy down.  And yes, the mindless T-bots are just as annoying as the Tebow haters.  Both groups are annoying.  But the sanctimony of the supposed NFL purists regarding Tebow!  They are just fronting.  They have a visceral dislike for the player.  It's not reasoned.  Reason alone does not motivate people to post 110+ pages of pseudo-analysis hating on a player or his fans.

And, yes, I am pulling to him to make the last TE roster spot just to see the haters lose their minds.  I want the complainers and negativity spewers to continue having something to wail about while the rest of us enjoy the most hope we've had for this team in 20 years.

Congrats. 

In one post, you perfectly encapsulated why there is little to no substantive football discussion of Tebow.  None of the reasons you or anyone else support him have anything to do with substantive football reasons.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The answer is simple:  he's a hometown hero to many people.  He's a Jacksonville kid who had a heroic college career for many people's favorite college team.  And, he's a public Christian.  For many fans on this board, one or more of the above rankle them to no end.  It's why they spend inordinate time tearing the guy down.  And yes, the mindless T-bots are just as annoying as the Tebow haters.  Both groups are annoying.  But the sanctimony of the supposed NFL purists regarding Tebow!  They are just fronting.  They have a visceral dislike for the player.  It's not reasoned.  Reason alone does not motivate people to post 110+ pages of pseudo-analysis hating on a player or his fans.

And, yes, I am pulling to him to make the last TE roster spot just to see the haters lose their minds.  I want the complainers and negativity spewers to continue having something to wail about while the rest of us enjoy the most hope we've had for this team in 20 years.

Congrats. 

In one post, you perfectly encapsulated why there is little to no substantive football discussion of Tebow.  None of the reasons you or anyone else support him have anything to do with substantive football reasons.

I wasn't attempting to give football reasons.  Look back through the thread if you like.  I have been skeptical of his ability to convert to TE and make the team.  But I haven't been angry that his old college coach gave him an opportunity.  It will all work itself out by the end of the month and I will be content either way.  

Is Ben Ellefson a significantly better player today than Tebow?  Maybe; maybe not.  Can anyone make a real case the last guy to make the roster is of any more real quality than a practice squad guy or a free agent?  No.  And if the Jags were to trade for Ertz, one or both of those guys would be gone.  I don't see us keeping 5 TEs rather than another OL or WR.  But that's just me.

---

Fix the O-Line!

Congrats. 

In one post, you perfectly encapsulated why there is little to no substantive football discussion of Tebow.  None of the reasons you or anyone else support him have anything to do with substantive football reasons.

I wasn't attempting to give football reasons.  Look back through the thread if you like.  I have been skeptical of his ability to convert to TE and make the team.  But I haven't been angry that his old college coach gave him an opportunity.  It will all work itself out by the end of the month and I will be content either way.  

Is Ben Ellefson a significantly better player today than Tebow?  Maybe; maybe not.  Can anyone make a real case the last guy to make the roster is of any more real quality than a practice squad guy or a free agent?  No.  And if the Jags were to trade for Ertz, one or both of those guys would be gone.  I don't see us keeping 5 TEs rather than another OL or WR.  But that's just me.

I can make a case that Tyler Davis and Ben Ellefson are ten years younger than Tebow.  And that is indeed a factor when deciding roster depth. 

^ Just nitpicking your post there. 

You're right - it will work itself out. I'm just skeptical about moving on from a prospect like Oliver before getting him into camp and seeing him work only to go sign a wing and a prayer reclamation project.  And my beef on that is with Urban Meyer, not Tim Tebow.

---

I wasn't attempting to give football reasons.  Look back through the thread if you like.  I have been skeptical of his ability to convert to TE and make the team.  But I haven't been angry that his old college coach gave him an opportunity.  It will all work itself out by the end of the month and I will be content either way.  

Is Ben Ellefson a significantly better player today than Tebow?  Maybe; maybe not.  Can anyone make a real case the last guy to make the roster is of any more real quality than a practice squad guy or a free agent?  No.  And if the Jags were to trade for Ertz, one or both of those guys would be gone.  I don't see us keeping 5 TEs rather than another OL or WR.  But that's just me.

I can make a case that Tyler Davis and Ben Ellefson are ten years younger than Tebow.  And that is indeed a factor when deciding roster depth. 

^ Just nitpicking your post there. 

You're right - it will work itself out. I'm just skeptical about moving on from a prospect like Oliver before getting him into camp and seeing him work only to go sign a wing and a prayer reclamation project.  And my beef on that is with Urban Meyer, not Tim Tebow.

I don't get moving on from Oliver, either.  I would have liked to see him for at least one off season under the new staff.  Maybe they saw character or lack of desire to compete?  I have no idea.  And if Tebow, Ellefson, and Davis (forgot about him) are all basically equal, age would not be a determining factor for me.  Manhertz, Oshaunessey, and Ferrell are the top three. You're not looking for your 4th TE to be a starter or get significant snaps.  If he's that much of a project, there will be another one out there on a practice squad or as a street free agent if I need to shore up depth later in the season.  I'm looking at who has the intangibles I want on the team.  Honestly, a tie breaker for me if I were choosing would be "who do I have a connection to?".  IF they are all roughly equal in terms of on field qualities.  I don't know that they are.  As NH3 states, "Time will tell."

---

Fix the O-Line!

If it’s close, you ALWAYS go with the younger guy.

---

Maybe they signed Tebow to camp because they need plenty of TE's available for whatever scheme they are practicing and UM knew Tebow would give 100% even when there's no chance he'll make the team. Added bonus, he'll keep the other one or two TE's also doomed to be cut working hard in the preseason.

---

Maybe they signed Tebow to camp because they need plenty of TE's available for whatever scheme they are practicing and UM knew Tebow would give 100% even when there's no chance he'll make the team.  Added bonus, he'll keep the other one or two TE's also doomed to be cut working hard in the preseason.

Because fringe NFL players need an over the hill never was to motivate them to try hard.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Maybe they signed Tebow to camp because they need plenty of TE's available for whatever scheme they are practicing and UM knew Tebow would give 100% even when there's no chance he'll make the team.  Added bonus, he'll keep the other one or two TE's also doomed to be cut working hard in the preseason.

Because fringe NFL players need an over the hill never was to motivate them to try hard.

You're backing yourself into a tight logical corner.  Your insistence at every turn that there is no possible reason for Tebow to be practicing means that either UM is a complete homer moron or he knows what he's doing.  In order to keep your ego intact you'll likely settle on moron's luck if the Jags play well.

---

Because fringe NFL players need an over the hill never was to motivate them to try hard.

You're backing yourself into a tight logical corner.  Your insistence at every turn that there is no possible reason for Tebow to be practicing means that either UM is a complete homer moron or he knows what he's doing.  In order to keep your ego intact you'll likely settle on moron's luck if the Jags play well.

Or maybe he's a novice and loyal coach that made a mistake with one of his most popular players.

It happens.

Bill Walsh had to be talked into drafting Joe Montana in 1979 instead of his old college QB Steve Dils.

Jimmy Johnson spent the equivalent of the top overall pick in 1990 to bring his college QB Steve Walsh to the Cowboys the same year they drafted Aikman.

Steve Spurrier loaded up Washington with many of his former Gator players, including Wuerffel.  That didn't end so well.  Coaches like bringing in players with whom they are familiar and they have had success.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Congrats. 

In one post, you perfectly encapsulated why there is little to no substantive football discussion of Tebow.  None of the reasons you or anyone else support him have anything to do with substantive football reasons.

I wasn't attempting to give football reasons.  Look back through the thread if you like.  I have been skeptical of his ability to convert to TE and make the team.  But I haven't been angry that his old college coach gave him an opportunity.  It will all work itself out by the end of the month and I will be content either way.  

Is Ben Ellefson a significantly better player today than Tebow?  Maybe; maybe not.  Can anyone make a real case the last guy to make the roster is of any more real quality than a practice squad guy or a free agent?  No.  And if the Jags were to trade for Ertz, one or both of those guys would be gone.  I don't see us keeping 5 TEs rather than another OL or WR.  But that's just me.

Irrespective of your intent, the net effect/end results are the same:  No substantive football based reason to support the Tebow signing.

By your own admission, you "have been skeptical of his ability to convert to TE to make the team."  So I won't even bother to go too much into that.

If you are coming off a 1-15 season, as a general rule, you want to rebuild with youth.  With Tebow, you are bringing in a guy who will be 34 years old at the start of the season.  Even assuming he makes the final roster, how many years could he be reasonably expected to give to the team?  Granted, rebuilding teams churn the bottom part of the roster all of the time, but they do so in large part in the hopes of finding a long term contributor.  It's doubtful Tebow could be a long term contributor to the team, even if he makes it.

As a general rule, you want to bring in guys who are going to upgrade a position of weakness on your team, especially when you are rebuilding.  The whole purpose is to make your team better.  If you are skeptical of his ability to successfully convert to TE and make the team, how can you argue he upgrades the position?  Admittedly, Tebow aside, at this stage, I don't think the team upgraded the TE position at all.  But again, if Tebow doesn't help that, why bring him in?  Can any Tebow supporter substantively dismiss Lavar Arrington's admittedly glib analysis?

Sometimes teams will bring in older players because they are familiar with the offense and can help teach the schemes to other players.  This was exemplified with the Marvin Jones signing.  Bevell was the offensive coordinator in Detroit the past couple of years, and Marvin Jones played under him.  He knows what the scheme requires, etc. Tebow never played under him.  He played under Urban Meyer....some 12 years ago....in college.  How much insight could he possibly provide, especially since he's changing positions?

Sometimes a team will bring in an older player because he can contribute on special teams.  What special teams experience does Tebow have?  What prowess in punt protection, punt coverage, kick coverage, blocking, returning, punting or kicking, gunning, long snapping, or holding for FGs has Tebow demonstrated?

Leadership?  Yeah, sometimes that is a motivating factor to bring a guy in.  But your response indicates at best, you think he'll be a fringe, bottom of the roster type player.  Fringe, bottom of the roster players are typically not leaders.  Think back in our team's history.  When have the likes of Chris Claybrooks, Will richardon, Todd Fordham, Prosinski, EVER been considered team leaders by the team or the fanbase as a whole?!?  It typically doesn't happen...at least not on successful teams.

So then let's examine the reasons you have stated people support him.

You said he's a hometown hero.  There was a guy who played receiver for the Jaguars a few years back...last name Ross, IIRC.  Went to JU.  Never seemed to register with the fanbase as a whole...certainly not to exalt him above better players.  Conversely, two of our most popular players, Tony Boselli and Calais Campbell, were from Colorado.  Jimmy Smith?  From Mississippi.  Fred Taylor is from Pahokee (I think)  You said he's a public Christian and people are bothered by that.  Who has expressed that?  To date, two of the most revered players in team history were devout Christians who were very open about their faith-Mark Brunell and Tony Boselli.  I would have guys of their caliber on my team any time and they are public Christians.  This is true league wide, as devout Christians like Darrell Greene, Reggie White, Aeneas Williams, Troy Polamalu, Roger Staubach, Tom Landry, Joe Gibbs and Tony Dungy.  Only a fool would not want those Christians associated with their teams when they were coaching and playing.  For additional context, Trevor Lawrence is a very public Christian.  There are very few Jaguars fans who do not enthusiastically welcome here here.  Conversely, there are lots of public Christians-local or national-like Rudolph McKissick, Homer Lindsay, Creflo Dollar, Rod Parsley, et al that I want nothing to do with this team whatsoever.  Not because they are Christians or even public Christians...but because...wait for it...they can't play football well enough to help the team win. 

I suppose if you want him to make the team for those reasons, that's okay...if you are okay with the team having a second mascot.  But spare me the pretense of the lack of reasoned objections to Tebow.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Because fringe NFL players need an over the hill never was to motivate them to try hard.

You're backing yourself into a tight logical corner.  Your insistence at every turn that there is no possible reason for Tebow to be practicing means that either UM is a complete homer moron or he knows what he's doing.  In order to keep your ego intact you'll likely settle on moron's luck if the Jags play well.

Meyer is known for his cronyism, so it's not some big surprise.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The answer is simple:  he's a hometown hero to many people.  He's a Jacksonville kid who had a heroic college career for many people's favorite college team.  And, he's a public Christian.  For many fans on this board, one or more of the above rankle them to no end.  It's why they spend inordinate time tearing the guy down.  And yes, the mindless T-bots are just as annoying as the Tebow haters.  Both groups are annoying.  But the sanctimony of the supposed NFL purists regarding Tebow!  They are just fronting.  They have a visceral dislike for the player.  It's not reasoned.  Reason alone does not motivate people to post 110+ pages of pseudo-analysis hating on a player or his fans.

And, yes, I am pulling to him to make the last TE roster spot just to see the haters lose their minds.  I want the complainers and negativity spewers to continue having something to wail about while the rest of us enjoy the most hope we've had for this team in 20 years.

Congrats. 

In one post, you perfectly encapsulated why there is little to no substantive football discussion of Tebow.  None of the reasons you or anyone else support him have anything to do with substantive football reasons.

So there has or hasn't been substantive discussion of Tebow the tight end?
Forget about his past as QB that doesn't matter now.
There Are trolls on both sides so I just ignore the leg humpers.

My point is this thread has devolved quickly, as threads with 100+ pages tend to do. There's less about Timmy the TE and more about back and forth with posters who think they're smarter than the next.

Like I said I don't think he'll make the roster. But if he does I don't think the hand wringing is warranted considering he's a fringe roster guy and any other #53 roster spot wouldn't get 100 pages of whining and crying back and forth.

What we have is a few Tebow fans, a few Gator haters, and a bunch of Jaguar fans arguing over something they'll never convince the other side of. It's like politics... pointless arguing. While the thread periodically goes off the rails talking about WCO or Joe frickin Namath.
The discussion should stick to what Tebow has done in practice and his competition that is on the roster (with perhaps some talks of who else we could bring in).
It isn't an all things Tebow thread. His past career is irrelevant. He's a tight end now. 
But the mods have it under control lol

---

Congrats. 

In one post, you perfectly encapsulated why there is little to no substantive football discussion of Tebow.  None of the reasons you or anyone else support him have anything to do with substantive football reasons.

So there has or hasn't been substantive discussion of Tebow the tight end?
Forget about his past as QB that doesn't matter now.
There Are trolls on both sides so I just ignore the leg humpers.

My point is this thread has devolved quickly, as threads with 100+ pages tend to do. There's less about Timmy the TE and more about back and forth with posters who think they're smarter than the next.

Like I said I don't think he'll make the roster. But if he does I don't think the hand wringing is warranted considering he's a fringe roster guy and any other #53 roster spot wouldn't get 100 pages of whining and crying back and forth.

What we have is a few Tebow fans, a few Gator haters, and a bunch of Jaguar fans arguing over something they'll never convince the other side of. It's like politics... pointless arguing. While the thread periodically goes off the rails talking about WCO or Joe frickin Namath.
The discussion should stick to what Tebow has done in practice and his competition that is on the roster (with perhaps some talks of who else we could bring in).
It isn't an all things Tebow thread. His past career is irrelevant. He's a tight end now. 
But the mods have it under control lol

If the conversation isn't to your liking you are welcome to exit the thread any time you wish. I dont recall anything in the CoC that says you must participate or that you get to decide the relevance of thread content.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Congrats. 

In one post, you perfectly encapsulated why there is little to no substantive football discussion of Tebow.  None of the reasons you or anyone else support him have anything to do with substantive football reasons.

So there has or hasn't been substantive discussion of Tebow the tight end?
Forget about his past as QB that doesn't matter now.
There Are trolls on both sides so I just ignore the leg humpers.

My point is this thread has devolved quickly, as threads with 100+ pages tend to do. There's less about Timmy the TE and more about back and forth with posters who think they're smarter than the next.

Like I said I don't think he'll make the roster. But if he does I don't think the hand wringing is warranted considering he's a fringe roster guy and any other #53 roster spot wouldn't get 100 pages of whining and crying back and forth.

What we have is a few Tebow fans, a few Gator haters, and a bunch of Jaguar fans arguing over something they'll never convince the other side of. It's like politics... pointless arguing. While the thread periodically goes off the rails talking about WCO or Joe frickin Namath.
The discussion should stick to what Tebow has done in practice and his competition that is on the roster (with perhaps some talks of who else we could bring in).
It isn't an all things Tebow thread. His past career is irrelevant. He's a tight end now. 
But the mods have it under control lol

To the degree there has been any substance to Tebow's career, there has been substantive discussion.  Problem is there isn't much substance to Tebow's career-past or present- and any discussion is going to reflect that. If I had to draw a pop culture parallel, I'd say Tebow is the football equivalent of Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian-people who are famous for doing nothing substantive.

To your credit, you are clamoring for substantive discussion.

What does he have to offer the team now?

I am Yoda admits to being skeptical about Tebow's chances of making the roster.  You have echoed these sentiments in your post here.  Apparently, at least the three of us are all in agreement that Tebow has little to offer this team.

You are saying no #53 guy on any roster would warrant 100+ pages of discussion....I agree.  This is why I posed the question about Tebow being different.

I showed the clip of Arrington bashing Tebow's route running.  You have been silent on it.

I offered the tangible and intangible reasons a team brings a player aboard in June and explained why Tebow's value in those areas are limited at best.

Aside from not engaging Tank Commander at all, I'm not sure what else I can do to squeeze blood from a turnip here.

The great thing about message board discussions of this nature is that participants in the discussion help to steer it.  You are respected enough here to have a take and get discussion going in a way you want.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!