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The Real Marty · 01-26-2018, 09:01 AM

(01-25-2018, 11:18 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote:
(01-25-2018, 08:14 PM)EricC85 Wrote: By that logic we should impose Tarrifs on anything made outside of Canada or Europe.
Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan, for instance, are just fine.

(01-25-2018, 10:55 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: Apparently this is more than a 2-sided question. I have a different point of view from both of you.

I don't think imported tires are of lower quality than American made tires. But that's beside the point.

Secondly, if a person wants to buy imported tires, they should have that right. And I don't think restricting imported tires would have any effect whatsoever on the human rights of the overseas countries where those imported tires were made.

But let's suppose that we did restrict cheaper imported tires. Now everyone who needs new tires has to buy more expensive American made tires. Because of this, people drive longer on old tires instead of getting new ones. Fewer tires get sold and installed. Raise the price, reduce the demand. So fewer tires sold, fewer jobs at tire stores and fewer jobs at tire installers.

The problem is, things that benefit society as a whole are much harder to see than things that benefit a particular special interest. People say, for example, we need to restrict the inflow of cheap steel from overseas to save American steel jobs. It's easier for people to see that we saved some jobs at a steel mill than it is for them to see that the price of everything that uses steel just went up and they're going to have to pay more for a whole lot of things.

People save a whole lot of money on cheap imported goods, and that money that they saved flows into other businesses here in the United States. Suppose a person who is living from paycheck to paycheck has to pay more for clothes, and shoes, and a TV set. And then they need to fix their roof. Do they postpone fixing their roof? And with the price of shoes going up, do they buy fewer shoes? And what effect does that have on jobs at shoe stores?

Bottom line: I don't think we can control the flow of cheaper goods, and I don't think we should try to. We need to either find a way to compete, or find some other business. I am for free markets and free trade.

And yet our primary economic adversary has neither free markets nor free trade, so why grant them free access to our market at the same time they undercut us with immoral busuness behaviors? Cheap stuff at the cost of our moral fabric.

First of all, I don't think restricting imports will have any effect at all on the way other countries operate.
Secondly, the title of this thread, "Addressing a real problem..." I don't think it's a problem.
Thirdly, I don't want to pay more for everything just to pressure the Chinese into acting more like us.

Here's what I'm saying to both you and Eric-

Let's look at the actual effect of importing goods from overseas.   Eric's tires, for example. Suppose I have $1,000 to spend, and I can either buy Eric's domestically produced tires for $1,000, or I can buy imported tires for $800. What do I do with the other $200? I might go out to eat, which benefits the restaurant industry, and I might buy a pair of sneakers, which benefits the local shoe store, and I might go to the movies, which benefits the local movie theater.   Eric's tire store might he hurt, but the guy who is selling the imported tires would be helped. The net result is, I've actually helped the economy by buying those imported tires.

But let's imagine we do restrict import of tires from countries where we don't like their politics or their lack of regulation. Would you be willing to allow German or British tires into the US? What if those German or British companies source their tires from China?

And what about the substantial proportion of people in the United States who are barely making ends meet? What if they need new tires? Do you force them to buy expensive domestically produced tires just to protect Eric's job?

But back to your idea of using trade policy to change the behavior of other countries. You really want to in effect tax the US citizenry in an effort to change the way the Chinese do things? It won't work.   It will only hurt the US economy and further impoverish poor people, both here and abroad.