(01-29-2019, 03:41 PM)B2hibry Wrote:

(01-29-2019, 01:20 PM)jradMITEX Wrote: If there is such an emergency and such precedent, then what is the hold up?  Why wait if this is so straightforward, common, and pressing?  Every minute of delay just bolsters the argument that there isn't an emergency if it is so easy why shut down the government for 35+ days?  if what you assert is true then the presidents actions are baffling and illogical.   This board is not a complete reflection of society or the opinion of the country which after numerous polls has shown consistently that a majority of the country is against the wall, pick a time, a year ago, before the shutdown and after, still a majority oppose the wall.   You can blame a lack of an immigration deal on all parties involved, I guess even though Republicans have repeatedly been the ones to tank the big bipartisan immigration bills out of appeasement to the base, however, this shutdown was 100% on Trump.  He could have easily of signed the CR in December and continued to make his public push.  He thought the shutdown gave him leverage for some idiotic reason when in fact it has weakened him politically.  Negotiating during a shutdown would have just invited more down the road.   This is 100% about a wall ok maybe just 99% if he would have dropped the wall precondition he could easily have gotten the money for other border security measures and investments.  It's quite incredulous to suggest that the wall isn't the crux of the matter, it was heavily sold on the campaign, he repeatedly suggested that without it we will be overrun by drugs and crime.  Build the wall and crime will fall right?  

BTW Pelosi didn't prevent him completely from giving the SOTU, just during the shutdown, and low and behold its back on.  She'll go down in history all right, as the first Speaker to win a shutdown and the one who made Trump cave after the longest shutdown in history.

This isn't difficult. He owes it to Congress to let them do their job. You can cite all the polls you'd like about what people think about a "wall". It's about border security that includes multiple measures as identified by the responsible agency, not what Jenny from Maine thinks about the wall. The Dems have pushed over and over that the "wall" is evil/immoral and the media have parroted the same. The slow thinkers have now latched onto that saggy teat. I feel like a broken record on here even after providing fact after fact and link after link. The fact remains, no measure implemented alone at the border will work or stand on its own as an effective deterrent. They must be used in concert with all the other pieces. Only under this President have the Dems walked back on that thought and held funding hostage. I agree though, for the Dems, it is 100% about a wall but for the Reps and those that pay attention, it is about border security.

I feel like you just type your emotional thoughts on here with zero understanding of reality and 100% opinion. You're entitled and I get that. However, it feels like no effort has been given by you to research outside of your emotional opinion or what your party tells you. I even tried to offer up documentation to help you along the way. At this point, I'll let you believe what you believe and grasp partisan rhetoric as fact. I can't waste time offering up information you could find on your own, only to have you just dismiss it.

Yeah, Pelosi wins a shutdown . She really is a shining example and showed women how not to be bullied by a man...etc, etc. All her old, rich, white millionaire friends will be sure to send her thank you cards for the continuance of cheap immigrant day labor. I wouldn't hold your breath for yours!

Lets look at the unemotional stats to refute the justification for a wall.

A wall will stop illegal drugs yet..

According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection statistics, 90 percent of heroin seized along the border, 88 percent of cocaine, 87 percent of methamphetamine, and 80 percent of fentanyl in the first 11 months of the 2018 fiscal year was caught trying to be smuggled in at legal crossing points.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli...591279002/

A wall will prevent illegal immigrants from reaching the country yet most illegal immigrants entered the country legally. Yet more according to new data about 2/3 of new illegal immigrants this year entered the country legally.
"It also projected that overstays made up about two-thirds of the total number of people who became unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. that year."

https://www.politifact.com/california/st...ll-people/


There's a crisis at the border, yet the number of illegal crossings is at a decades old low

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/po...gnId=7JLFJ

And the most shameless reason, one that they aren't even repeating after even Fox News checked them on it
Terrorist enter the southern border yet there has been no credible evidence of such a thing

https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-contai...d=60209995

I guess that zero understanding of reality works both ways huh?

You know why most people are against the wall?  They don't think it will be effective and know it will cost a lot of money, much more than the initial 5.7B  numbers put it at 20B+, they see this as what it is obviously  grossly simplified solution to a complex problem, they see it as a large vanity project for Trump's self esteem.  They don't see immigrants as an invading hoard bringing death and destruction but mostly as people looking for a better life.  They see right through the fear mongering, the calls that this will prevent American society itself from collapsing.  Catchy three line campaign promises don't solve this issue.

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