(02-12-2019, 03:16 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: (02-12-2019, 11:42 AM)JackCity Wrote: National socialism in Germany literally stemmed from conservative theorists as something to stem the rise of Marxism and Bolshevism. "Socialist" is less important in the name than "National" as the party was largely based on nationalism.
There was a small more radical element to the party that was more classically socialist but Hitler was on the opposite side to them.
National socialism is not right-wing because they share a sense of nationalism.
They called it national socialism because they wanted another word for socialism. Much like today with re-branding it into democratic socialism, it's the same stuff with a new name. They specifically named it national socialism (formerly Germans Worker Party) to attract more members from socialist and communist groups. Gregor Strasser, an official in the Nazi party, once said, "We are Socialists, enemies, mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system...".
Admittedly, like most economies in history, they exihibited elements of crony capitalism. This, however, doesn't change how the government still maintained the power of production. They told the "privately held" companies what to produce, how much to produce, and when to produce it.
This idea that nationalism is racist because Nazis were racists and, as a result, right-wing (because they're racist) is purposely ignoring everything the Nazi party did. They explicitly said they were socialist.
(02-12-2019, 11:49 AM)mikesez Wrote:
There were legitimate socialists in the Nazi party when it competed in elections. The Nazis let them be included as part of a big-tent strategy in the elections.
Then they killed them all off. Summary executions, no trial. It was called the Night of the Long Knives.
They never bothered to change the name of the party, but it wasn't pretending to be socialist anymore.
Nazis were socialists.
Hitler was the Fuhrer of the Nazi Party beginning in 1921... the National Socialist German Workers Party. The Knight of the Long Knives didn't happen until 1934. Hitler didn't kill off the socialists; he killed off members of the storm detachment (SA). People he thought posed a risk to his power. The SA was the Nazis first paramilitary group and rapidly increasing in numbers and influence. Frankly, I'm not even sure how you thought that was a killing-off of socialists. That was entirely about Hitler's (and Hindenburg's) fear of the rising power of the SA.
You might want to look up where the national socialist movement stemmed from and what its beliefs were Vs what an actual socialists believed at the time. It stemmed from conservative theorists post world war 1 who wanted to oppose communism and Bolshevism i.e actual socialism at the time. They wanted removal of classes, world socialism, rise of the proles , and distribution of capital. The "National Socialist" movement was not based on any of those themes.
Early on they were a purely populist party with some socialist policies to try entire workers to join, but it wasn't very effective and were eventually scrapped.
Lol I take it you have no idea who Gregor Strasser was do you?
You should also probably Google what happened on the night of the long knives too before spouting off about it (hint : it's related to Gregor Strasser)
(02-12-2019, 03:40 PM)mikesez Wrote: (02-12-2019, 03:16 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: National socialism is not right-wing because they share a sense of nationalism.
They called it national socialism because they wanted another word for socialism. Much like today with re-branding it into democratic socialism, it's the same stuff with a new name. They specifically named it national socialism (formerly Germans Worker Party) to attract more members from socialist and communist groups. Gregor Strasser, an official in the Nazi party, once said, "We are Socialists, enemies, mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system...".
Admittedly, like most economies in history, they exihibited elements of crony capitalism. This, however, doesn't change how the government still maintained the power of production. They told the "privately held" companies what to produce, how much to produce, and when to produce it.
This idea that nationalism is racist because Nazis were racists and, as a result, right-wing (because they're racist) is purposely ignoring everything the Nazi party did. They explicitly said they were socialist.
Nazis were socialists.
Hitler was the Fuhrer of the Nazi Party beginning in 1921... the National Socialist German Workers Party. The Knight of the Long Knives didn't happen until 1934. Hitler didn't kill off the socialists; he killed off members of the storm detachment (SA). People he thought posed a risk to his power. The SA was the Nazis first paramilitary group and rapidly increasing in numbers and influence. Frankly, I'm not even sure how you thought that was a killing-off of socialists. That was entirely about Hitler's (and Hindenburg's) fear of the rising power of the SA.
Your quote from Gregor Strasser looks authentic.
Look up how and when the man died...
Oh this is brilliant, he doesn't know who he is
