First of all Bullseye let me start off by saying that you are a valued and respected member of this community.  I don't want to turn this discussion personal.  We can agree to disagree along political lines and it doesn't change the respect that I have for you as a valued member of our board.

(07-15-2019, 07:51 PM)Bullseye Wrote:

(07-15-2019, 03:34 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: I wouldn't exactly say "what everyone else is thinking", but a large number of people do think and feel the same way.  The comment was made towards the "children" in Congress, but it should have been more specific to the African.

Before anyone decides to call me "racist" for pointing out that Ilhan Omar is indeed African let's set the record straight.  There is only one race... that being the human race.  She is ethnically African.

The only reason that I said that the comment should have been directed to her specifically is because she and her family immigrated here (the right way mind you) because they wanted to be in a better place.  That's why most people that immigrate here want to do, yet she basically says that this country is not "good enough".

Two of the other three are children of migrants (that did it LEGALLY) from places that are in fact worse off than this country.  Puerto Rico (AOC) and "Palestine" (Rashida Tlaib).

I don't like or agree with President Trump's tweet, though I can certainly see where it was coming from.  It's certainly not "what I was thinking" regarding these children elected to Congress.

It just so happens the target of his rants happen to be women of color?

In this case, yes it did "just so happen" to be minority women.  One factor that you seem to overlook is the fact that they are young freshman members of Congress who happen to be very far left on the political spectrum.  His rant had nothing to do with their ethnicity and everything to do with how they have conducted themselves.

Spare me the nonsense about us being "human beings."  This country's history has treated "human beings" quite differently based upon skin color.  Omar is American.  Full fledged...wholly legalized American Citizen with all of the rights that flow from being a citizen-as are the other three Congresswomen to which he refers.  

While you might think that my belief that there is only one race, that being the human race is "nonsense", it's what I believe and how I was raised.  I don't speak for anyone else but myself regarding that.  Unlike the far left that practically preaches identity politics, I view people for who they are and the "content of their character rather than the color of their skin".

Where the hell does Trumo get off telling anyone-especially legal U.S. citizens-to leave the country, anyhow?  The fact he is urging these four United States citizens to leave the country almost as urgently as those in cages along the border shows that legal status is but flimsy pretext for those policies and proclamations.

President Trump clearly stated that if they or anyone else is unhappy with our country they are free to leave.  As far as the people in "cages" along the border, they are not being held against their will.  They can return to their country of origin at any time.  They are being detained because they broke the law by entering the country illegally.  Citizens every day are detained in "cages" (jail) for the same reason every day.

He mentioned that all they do is complain.  First off, when does criticizing the president constitute hatred of the country?!?  Under that tacit rationale, Trump should have exited stage right when he began his wholly baseless attacks on former President Obama, and should have taken the bigoted and intransigent fascists on the right with him.

The thing is yes they do complain and point out things that might be wrong, yet vote "no" on bills that would address the situation solely because it would be a "win" in their eyes for the current President.  Criticizing The President is one thing, but when falsely labeled and accused is a whole other thing.

He cites allegedly anti semitic and pro al Qaeda sentiments uttered by Omar as a basis for them to leave. Again, by that rationale, Trump should be long gone from here.

So by your comment I assume that you agree that Representative Omar did not utter anti-semitic and pro al Qaeda sentiments?  If so, why should President Trump be "long gone"?

What enemies of this country has Trump NOT aligned himself with?  He supports the flying of the Confederate flag and the preservation of confederate monuments, which glorify a group of individuals who were willing to renounce citizenship in this country; a group founded-by its own admissions-upon principles opposite to the U.S. Constitution those of you on the right so reflexively yammer about revering; a group that took up arms against American troops, ultimately costing over 600,000 American lives.

I also support the flying of the Confederate flag and the preservation of confederate monuments.  Like it or not it's a part of our country's history.  The Civil War is a whole other topic of conversation.

He supported the "very fine people" of Charlottesville, who flew Confederate flags and Nazi flags.  For those of you who conveniently choose to forget, this country was at war with the Nazis between 1941-1945.  By the way, the Nazis were coalesced around anti semitism, as evidenced by "some very fine people" of Charlottesville who chanted "Jews will not replace us."

He bends over backwards to fellate Putin, former head of the KGB, the CIA equivalent of this country's biggest 20th century adversary, the former Soviet Union. His relations with Russians is unlike any U.S. president that came before him.  Furthermore, he engaged-without preconditions-one of the last remaining communist countries in the world-North Korea, who joined the Soviet union in opposing the United States, to the point where they went to war against us.

He is on good terms with Prime Minister Putin which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  He is not "in bed" or "in collusion" with him as much as the MSM would have you believe.  President Trump is the leader of our country and Prime Minister Putin is the leader of Russia.  Our President should have good relations with him.  It's called "diplomacy".

Regarding North Korea the call from the left has always been "diplomacy" yet those on the left including yourself criticize him for improving relations and attempting to solve differences diplomatically rather than going to war.  Rather than celebrate a historic act there is nothing but criticisim and the far left alleging that he is "with" them. It's a far greater act than any President before him ever achieved.

The fact is, this country was founded on dissent.  Some of the greatest moments in this country involved reasoned, passionate debate over genuine philosophical/political differences on how best to govern this country.  The First Amendment of the Constitution guarantees the right to free speech thusly, in relevant part:  "Congress shall make no law...or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;  or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for the redress of grievances." There is nothing in Article II that negates this, or for that matter, the rights of members of Congress to criticize sitting presidents.   There are any number of Supreme court cases that have the most eloquent advocacy of policy-in majority and dissenting opinion-you will ever see.  As distasteful, misguided, myopic, and yes, bigoted as I find many takes on the right, without question I affirm your rights to voice those views without having to excuse yourself from the country.  How dare this egotistical and bigoted [BLEEP] stain invite anyone who dares to disagree with him to leave the country?!?  If his policies are the right ones, he should have no problem defending the logic of them to his critics.  Instead, he divides this country again along racial and ethnic lines with his blatant hypocrisy and betrays the traditions that made this country great.  As many times as the right accused former President Obama of being a dictator, not once did he try to get his critics to leave the country because they dared disagree with him.  Not once did he call Fox news and other right leaning media "the enemy of the people."

As far as the part of your comment that I highlighted in blue let me say this.  I happen to be one of those people "on the right".  Please explain to me how my core values of "God, Family, Country" are "distasteful, misguided, myopic and bigoted".  President Trump's policy of defending our border follows The Constitution which he swore to protect and defend.  He shouldn't have to "defend" the fact that he is enforcing the law.  His invitation to anyone that isn't happy with our country is welcome to leave isn't about "him" or "his policy" , it's about our current policy in place and enforced by many presidents before him including President Obama.

As far as dividing the country along ethnic lines, that pretty much happened under President Obama.  Many strides were made as far as that goes and it seems to me like the "fire" started up again around 2010 or so.

May Trump rot in hell.

Again Bullseye I don't mean anything personal.  I respect you and value your opinion as a member of this community.  I welcome open debate and discussion as long as we keep it civil, honest and stay away from the "name calling" and accusations (ie. "racist", "bigot" "xenophobe").  I have never met you personally but I am assuming that perhaps you are a black man.  Please correct me if I am wrong about that.  I personally am a Hispanic male in my 50's closer to 60.  I do have conservative values and am not afraid to say so.  Let's discuss it and let the other members of our community chime in.

---