(07-16-2019, 08:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote:

(07-16-2019, 02:11 PM)USCG_JAG Wrote: 1.  Bullseye, are you one of those people who believe the Battle Standard of the Norther Virginia Army is indeed the confederate flag because that’s what they are told by CNN and every other race pandering leftist out there.

Point is, just because something is said to be racist by your peers doesn’t mean it is. 

2.  Trump is not telling these people to leave because they disagree with him or the fact that they are different skin color but because they do not value this country and [BLEEP] on it every chance they get.

Look at Omar’s words on 9/11, if her verbiage doesn’t bother you but Trump’s does.... the issue lies with you.

The far left Has divided this country with their race baiting, it’s cool to be anti-America bull crap.

People like me are getting tired of race being involved with everything and being called “racist” or every other adjective because our view point is different.

(numbering added)

1.  No, I do not believe the flag to which you refer is indeed the confederate flag and indeed racist because that's what CNN told me.  I know the flag is one of many the confederacy used to represent them at one point or another, and they can be seen here.  http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html  The Confederacy, in the various declarations of secession of Confederate states and Vice President Alexander Stephens' "Cornerstone of the Confederacy expressly adopted racist ideals as the basis for secession.  In relevant part Stephens states...

Quote:But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution, African slavery as it exists amongst us – the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”1

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

  (Emphasis added)

The complete text of his speech may be found here.  https://teachingamericanhistory.org/libr...ne-speech/

Stephens uttered those words more than a century before CNN came into existence.  Viewing CNN is not a prerequisite to discovering this text, nor is it a requirement to discern the horrific import of these words.  Only a reasonable amount of literacy and a willingness to learn the truth is needed.

Since the Confederacy was founded-by its own admissions and writings-upon principles of white supremacy and anti black racism, any flags they willingly chose to represent them (including the flag you reference) inevitably represent the noxious and repugnant ideals upon which the Confederacy was founded.  Any figures who fought to advance those hateful and oppressive ideals are also linked to that racism, no matter how many times triggered conservatives stamp their feet about the constraints of political correctness.  No matter how much revisionist history Confederate apologists employ, no matter how many Jedi mind tricks the right use to convince the masses of its benevolence, a clear, sober, and honest examination of history precludes a divorce of the various flags of the Confederacy from the racist principles that inspired its founding.    I defy ANY of you on here-in fact, invite a guest poster if you must-to provide a cogent, logical and factual argument explaining why flags the confederacy willingly chose to represent them should be separated from those ideals.  

2.  I will assume we are in agreement that, flaws and all, this is a great country. With that common baseline established for the moment, would you agree that a great country like ours is entitled to enforce its own laws?  I would assume so given that is a basis for the crackdown along the Southern border.  What, then, is your take on the whole Bundy militia saga?  To refresh, Cliven Bundy was a rancher whom the government alleged was grazing his cattle on federal lands, subjecting him to grazing fees, which he did not pay for years.  When the Federal government finally tried to collect, the Bundy militia, with weapons drawn on federal law enforcement, resisted.  Were these patriots?  Were these heroes?  Or should they have been invited to leave the country?