jagibelieve

(07-18-2019, 03:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: So if I understand you, Trump and the other conservatives jumping on proverbial grenades to defend Trump here, espousing favor towards identifying or sympathizing with individuals or entities that show hostility to this country and its values justifiably earns you an invite to leave the country, wholly independent of color, race, citizenship or national origin?

Where, then, are the urgings for those who fly the confederate flag, who support the preservation of confederate monuments, who wear or peddle Confederate insignias to leave the country?

The Confederacy were American citizens who renounced their American citizenship to form an entity their leaders openly admitted were founded upon principles antithetical to the U.S. Constitution, and took up arms against American troops.  If successful, their actions would have led minimally to ELEVEN (11) fewer stars on the flag and a country substantially smaller and size and stature than the one we have now.  As it stands, Confederate actions cost over 600,000 Americans their lives and divides this country to this day.  In the decades al Qaeda has been in existence, they haven't come close to achieving those results against this country.

Yet Trump does not tell them to leave the country (not secede...just leave).  Instead, he welcomes them eagerly among his base, and many of you clamoring for the squad to depart based on anti American sentiment fly the flags and revere the people of the Confederacy.

Why?

Quote:1.  Yes and no.  His tweet had nothing to do with their ethnicity other than the fact that they "came from" a different country either directly or as a child of immigrants.  He simply was saying that they complain about how our country is and pretty much told them "if you don't like it leave" which we are all free to do.  This isn't North Korea or another of the many Socialist countries that actually build barriers to keep people in.  He also invited them back to show us all how they fixed the problems of the country of their heritage.  That's not "racist".  He never said "send them back".

2.  Because those that fly the confederate flag and support the preservation of confederate monuments are citizens of this country.  Like it or not the confederate war is a part of our country's history.  Like it or not some of the monuments are there because there were great people on both sides of that war that define who we are as a country.  General Lee was one of the greatest warriors ever in that era as was Andrew Jackson who this very city happens to be named after.  History should not be erased of forgotten rather it should be taught and embraced.  Those were certainly different times.

You really can't compare the confederacy to modern times.  While I understand that the Confederate Flag or certain monuments might be "offensive" to some people, in my personal opinion I look upon those things as part of our history.

Now I'm not going to sit here and claim that those symbols are not used by racist people.  Yes they sometimes are.  However, it's a small minority of people that are fading away.  I personally don't have "a dog in this fight" regarding slavery since my heritage neither owned slaves or were slaves during that time.

I don't want to go too off topic here but the bottom line is that the President's tweets were in no way "racist".

2.  Complete propaganda.  AOC, Omar, et al are ALL U.S. CITIZENS!  That is objective fact.  As such, that should not be ANY BASIS for distinction in these cases whatsoever.  As far as being a part of this country's history, Benedict Arnold was also part of this country's history, as is John Walker Lindh.  Would you endorse naming schools after them, or erecting statues for them?  Of course not.  Why?  Because they are known for betraying this country.  Furthermore, by what standard are confederates "great people?"  Is it possible to be a great person while betraying your country and taking up arms against Americans?  If it's possible to be a great person while betraying your country, what makes Omar, et al (coincidentally all not white), so worthy of such immediate revulsion and expulsion while the Confederates and their sympathizers (overwhelmingly white) are not?  I thought anti American sentiment and actions are to be reviled irrespective of race. 

I'm not focusing so much on the racist part of the confederate motivation for the purposes of this discussion, but their express statement that their motivations are antithetical to the U.S. Constitution.  I'm talking the degree of disloyalty to this country it takes to be willing to renounce your American citizenship after being born here and take up arms against this country-something AOC, Omar, et al never did.  I'm not talking about how racially offensive the confederate flag is, but how that flag represents a betrayal of traditional understandings of patriotism and loyalty of country.

It's a different time now than it was during the Civil war.  But if that is the basis of the disparate treatment between these two groups, tell me, how has disloyalty to country somehow evolved from being more tolerable then than it is now?  If the Confederates themselves can somehow be excused for disloyalty to this country due to them being a product of their times, how can their contemporary apologists (again overwhelmingly white) somehow be excused, since you have the benefit of modern hindsight?



Yet race plays NO factor whatsoever in the disparate responses to the same dynamic?


I also find the argument that because Trump made no express, specific reference to race that the sentiments were not racist to be dubious.  If a person who hates the Jaguars references "the only NFL team in Florida to not reach a Super Bowl," it doesn't take a rocket scientist to discern they are talking specifically about the Jaguars.  Similarly, a burning cross in a front yard makes no express reference to race, but without question it is an abhorrent expression of anti black sentiment.  This "Simon Says" standard you want to make a requirement to confirm racist sentiment does not comport with reality.

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