(07-19-2019, 04:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote:

(07-19-2019, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: Then they, too, betrayed this country and fought to oppress blacks.  They too were on the wrong side of history.

They too should rot if they were not repentant and caused a comparable level of harm.

As for the KKK...if their beef was with "carpetbaggers and angry northern soldiers," where did the whole terrorizing of blacks come in?

1.  You're taking this entirely too personal. And that above line is pretty low. If we dug through all of our families history we would all more than likely find things that would make us feel ashamed or disappointed. Pretty [BLEEP] thing to say man....

2.  We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally. Most of humanity's history is brutal, cold and hard. It's still that same way in parts of the world today. Doesn't matter if it's in Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Europe, North America, Australia and South America. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. But that only applies to that person or persons individual beliefs. 

3.  If in every War both sides think they are right then are any of us right? How does this number below make you feel? It still continues today. Nothing has changed there for the better. You think an eye for an eye is correct? Or holding old sins over descendants of darker times is the right way to go? I see a lot of weakness in your lines of thinking. 

Ultimately, our Country changed for the better. While it still continues in other parts of the World. And many people, including you, myself and everyone on this thread should really see that as an accomplishment. But you keep on throwing stones at an old headstone. 


4.  Prevalence within Africa:

On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region.

(numbering added)

1.  So how would  you feel if someone worked to oppress you or your ancestors?  By your own words in this very post "We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally."  How personally SHOULD I take such efforts to inflict such suffering based upon my race?  al Qaeda attacked this country on 9/11/2001 and killed 3000 of our countrymen.  It happened 18 years ago, and those responsible are dead, including Bin Laden.  Yet even though most of us did not lose anyone in those attacks, most of us hate al Qaeda and took the attacks personally.  Why?  Under your logic, there should be little to no animosity towards al Qaeda.  Those on the right have asserted the four congresswomen were to leave the country because they expressed anti American sentiment.  Why should those who take up arms against this country be treated any differently?  Just because they are HIS ancestors?!?  What merits their exemption from contempt when they betray fundamental and traditional notions of patriotism and common human decency? 

He introduced his family into the discussion.  He asked the question.  I answered.  What is the problem?

If they somehow had no choice in fighting for the confederacy, perhaps they get a pass.  If they somehow worked to undo the damage they did to blacks and this country after the fact, perhaps they deserve the benefit of the doubt.  Otherwise, either they chose to fight for the confederacy knowing the repugnant ideals upon which it was founded, or they fought for the confederacy completely oblivious to those principles, which means they betrayed the country and common human decency out of ignorance.  Either way, I am not obliged to honor them because he does, especially when they work to weaken this country and oppress people on the basis of race.

2.   Taking this at face value, how did I apply my answer to anyone other than his ancestors who fought for the Confederacy?  I didn't say Trivial Pursuit should rot in hell.  I didn't say ALL of Trivial Pursuit's ancestors should rot in hell.  Just the ones who fought for the confederacy HE introduced to the conversation.  I don't get the point you are making.

3 & 4.  Yes...there is clear right and wrong to be found in many wars.  When the nazis engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Jews, they were spectacularly wrong, no matter how man of their soldiers believed they were right, no matter how many were just following orders.

As to Africa's role in the slave trade, those responsible are equally culpable in my mind.  Much like what happened in World War II when prisoners of war were taken, African lands that traded in slaves during them traded away people who amounted to prisoners of war in many instances.  To the extent they participated or currently participate in such a repugnant enterprise, they are contemptible.  Their actions led to the suffering of millions.  Their status as blacks or non whites does not exempt them from blame.  Similarly, people's status as white does not make them evil.  There were plenty of whites who did not actively work to oppress blacks here, and plenty who died fighting for the rights of people like me, from John Brown, to the Freedom Riders during the Civil Rights movement, to Heather Heyer who was murdered in Charlottesville.  There are those on this very board in this very thread who have spoken out against racism.  Even Flsportsgod, who is on the opposite end of the political spectrum from me expressed good will between the races.  When I said I appreciated the sentiment, I meant that.

But irrespective of anyone's ancestry, I, in no way fell compelled to exempt their actions in serving the confederacy just because of their status as someone's ancestor.

Does that answer your questions?

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(07-19-2019, 04:08 PM)mikesez Wrote:

(07-19-2019, 04:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: You're taking this entirely too personal. And that above line is pretty low. If we dug through all of our families history we would all more than likely find things that would make us feel ashamed or disappointed. Pretty [BLEEP] thing to say man....

We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally. Most of humanity's history is brutal, cold and hard. It's still that same way in parts of the world today. Doesn't matter if it's in Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Europe, North America, Australia and South America. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. But that only applies to that person or persons individual beliefs. 

If in every War both sides think they are right then are any of us right? How does this number below make you feel? It still continues today. Nothing has changed there for the better. You think an eye for an eye is correct? Or holding old sins over descendants of darker times is the right way to go? I see a lot of weakness in your lines of thinking. 

Ultimately, our Country changed for the better. While it still continues in other parts of the World. And many people, including you, myself and everyone on this thread should really see that as an accomplishment. But you keep on throwing stones at an old headstone. 


Prevalence within Africa:

On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region.

We are not our ancestors.  Bullseye was not insulting TrivialPursuit. 
TrivialPursuit's ancestors are gone from this world and facing whatever there is for them in the next. None of that indicates anything about TrivialPursuit's own worth.

Thank you.

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