(05-07-2020, 10:44 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote:

(05-06-2020, 09:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: (Italics and underline added)

How did you determine Marrone is an "awful" coach?  Was it after he brought Buffalo their first winning season in a decade, or when he brought the Jaguars their first winning season in a decade?  Was it the next year, when the team was down to it's 4th LT by mid season?  BTW, that 4th LT wasn't even on the roster a the beginning of the season.  In fact, he was on our opponent's opening day roster as starting RT.  Or was it last year, when the starting QB was injured eleven (11) offensive plays into the season to be replaced by a rookie QB, and the started CB lost all patience with the team because of TC (among other possible reasons)? 

As for how long it takes to know if hring a coach was a mistake, given the state of our roster at the end of 2012 and the start of 2013, there was no way to definitively know Bradley was a mistake.  You could suspect it, yes.  But if you are basing it solely on W-L, NOBODY would have won with that roster. 

To illustrate

Consider the coach with the following records in his first 6 seasons as a head coach:

6-10
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11

Only one (1) winning record in SIX (6) seasons-without even managing one playoff win?!?

Certainly he is not worthy to be a head coach, right?

Congrats. 

You would have canned or not hired  Bill freaking Beliichick.

Now I don't compare Marrone to Belichick-or any number of coaches most deem to be or have been great.

But what happened with Belichick after 2000?  Did he not know anything about coaching despite his father being a coach, despite him being a defensive coordinator for a decade under hall of fame coach Bill Parcells, and being head coach in Cleveland from 1991-1995?  Did he have to return to Parcells with the Jets to learn the how to coach?  If so, why didn't he win in 2000?  What happened between 2000 and 2001 to make him a coach capable of winning for 20 straight seasons, reaching Nine Super Bowls and winning six?

Want a hint? 

Guys named Tom Brady, Matt Light, and Richard Seymour.  I'm no expert, but I would say those guys were pretty important to their success, wouldn't you?  They were added to players like Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Ty Law and Lawyer Millloy.


That nucleus enabled him to go on an unprecedented span of winning.

If a coach like Belichick needs talent to win, why should it be any different for Marrone? 

More importantly as it pertains to your analysis, if the team didn't win until TC arrived, then why didn't it continue to win while TC was still here?  If TC were the catalyst, and he was here for three years, shouldn't we be coming off three straight winning seasons?

While TCs contributions to the team helped (I credit him with bringing the key free agents aboard like Campbell, Bouye, and Church), there were plenty of Caldwell's picks that were catalysts on that 2017 team, including Ramsey, Bortles, Yann, Jack, Telvin Smith, et al.

Accordingly, it is quite possible that Khan legitimately thought that despite the disappointing records, neither Dace Caldwell mor Doug Marrone were completely blameworthy for the final results the past two years.

As for not waiting 3 years to move on from a coach deemed not good enough, the browns have had SEVEN (7) head coaches within the last decade.  Where has such instability gotten them?

I can't... I just can't...

That's what happened? so if you put Marrone instead of BB they still win 6 SBs? I forgot the Patriots are the only team in the NFL with talent in their roster (in some seasons because they've had seasons with mediocre talent in a lot of positions and still had winning seasons... I wonder why....). You say you are not comparing Marrone to BB, then why you posted all that?. BB is BB, not every coach can be like him. I am not old enough to know what happened in Cleveland but looking at those records it was either lack of talent, problems with the owner and/or BB was obviously not the same BB from now. You know, SOME people actually learn and improve from past experiences but others don't, you can give Bradley 20 years as a HC and he will never be at BB level. JDR had another chance with the Raiders and still ended up being the same he was here. 

I see that BB had 4 years before being a HC again, I bet he was (still is) pretty much obsessed with being a great HC, he spent a lot of time thinking about his time in Cleveland and what went wrong and what he should improve, not everyone is like that.

Bradley was awful. Marrone is mediocre. I am not gonna waste my time telling you why when it has been discussed for months in the MB, when it is obvious for any person who has watched all his games as the HC of the Jags, after the blowouts last year and awful awful defense and yet still keeping Wash. He was supposed to be a O-line specialist and ours has been mediocre at best and makes no effort to improve it.

Really his QB went down last year? so? BB (since you love talking about him) lost Brady too and still had a winning season with freaking Matt Cassel. You think Bortles is better than Foles? didn't Foles came back and we were worse with him?

I am done here. 
I hope all you people who defend DC and DM enjoy another losing season.

No I do not assert Marrone wins 6 Super bowls when placed in New England instead of Belichick.  Lots of different variables to determine success or failure over the course of seasons and playoffs.

But it's pretty safe to assume he'd have more than the one winning season out of three here in Jacksonville.

The point is-or should be-obvious.  Coaches need talent to succeed.

NFL history-from the distant past and contemporary history- is replete with examples illustrating this.

What's the difference between the Steelers of last year and 2017?  We're talking the same three year period as Marrone's Jacksonville HC stint. This presumably took place AFTER you were born, so that's not an excuse for ducking the analysis.

How did they go from 13-3 to 9-6-1 to 8-8?

Did Tomlin suddenly forget how to win, or is it possible that the Steelers missed the on field contributions of Leveon Bell who held out in 2018 and left last year, Antonio Brown, who left last year, and a healthy Big Ben?

You also mentioned Marrone's specialty as being the offensive line and the OL under Marrone has been "mediocre at best."

That is patently false!

Under Marrone, the OL set a franchise record for fewest sacks allowed in a season, with 24.  That's one and a half sacks a game.

That year the team was also 3rd in rushing yards.

This continued two prior years of considerable reduction of sacks allowed while he was OL coach.

What are YOU using to determine offensive line efficacy?

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