(05-12-2020, 09:09 AM)Gabe Wrote:

(05-11-2020, 09:28 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: I'm trying to accumulate facts if that's what you mean.  When new facts are introduced (broken water pipe), I try to fit the new info into some kind of logical pattern.  I see very few attempting to exercise their brains on this one; many knew all they cared to know after reading one headline.

And something bothered me about the positioning of the men in the truck, so I thought about it for a while, considering what we know about the experience of the older man. He could likely cover Arbery from twice the distance Arbery could return accurate fire.  So if this was a murder it would have been over before the truck ever got close.  Pops had several clear shots at Arbery, but didn't fire until after the shotgun was fired.

Another thought just occurred.  Why was the man chasing the truck?  Because there was only one way out of the neighborhood and the cops were on the way.

No, that's not what I mean - while assigning blame to others for skewing their perception, you miss obvious points that should modify your original, objective opinion. The Brunswick article (with the father/son's quotes), if true, stipulates that it would've been impossible for Arbery to be chasing the truck, as they were the ones chasing him and made multiple attempts to cut off his escape. It's also kinda hard to chase an immobile vehicle with the driver standing outside brandishing a shotgun and the father standing in the bed armed with a .357 mag. 

However, I never called it murder. Based on evidence, this is manslaughter clear and simple - arguable that the shotgun was involuntary, arguable that the .357 was voluntary (if that contributed to his death, I don't know if it did, but it was definitely attempted). Self-defense for Arbery despite trespassing, despite being assigned labels as felon/gang-banger/etc. from others, despite running away or running for recreation, despite wrestling with the dude brandishing the shotgun. I'd argue that he continued to attempt to escape from them by running to the right of the truck as opposed to directly at the guy with the shotgun. Shotgun then takes position around the front of the truck/bumper and then it's self-defense time. 

The point I made with my Riverside biking example, where you felt the unavoidable need to get into straw-man attack mode, was that if it were me, I would be fearing for my life at that point and would make every attempt to defend myself.