(05-13-2020, 09:44 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote:

(05-13-2020, 09:26 AM)jj82284 Wrote: I disagree.  I think that given the Way GA defines Burglary as "entering a dwelling with the intent to steal" then the act of him looking to make sure that there was no one around and then fleeing the scene would constitute evidence of intent to steal which in GA is a felony 1.  Also, McMichael reported that he personally had something stolen from his truck and he was involved in a previous incident with Arbery at that same residence and there is video evidence of someone matching his description entering the house on multiple occasions.  

Again, I think that we morally agree they acted stupidly.  I don't like the GA law as written.  But I think that given the fact pattern, it's going to be hard to prove criminal liability beyond a reasonable doubt.  IF they positively identify Arbery as the guy on the previous videos/find a pawn-scrap ticket for copper piping, tools, the missing gun etc. then this case should be abandoned and thrown out.  Now as far as civil liability, i think that's a different story.  Public opinion is going to go a lot longer way in that arena than arguing suspected felony intent to steal vs. simple trespassing in a citizens arrest defense.  This guy has a pension, he has assets, now they belong to the family.  Get him to plead to a lesser crime with little to no jail time to avoid a trial, rewrite the law to exclude petty property crimes from citizens arrest and only allow citizens to follow the suspect for the officials.

Hannah Payne personally witnessed the incident for which she killed her man giving her a significantly more acceptable reason for her actions, so the verdict in that one will foreshadow this one since the reasoning of the McMichaels doesn't reach the same standard. I don't think this will be a tough case for the jury and those guys are going to jail for a long time.

I can understand where you're coming from, but there are actually a few significant differences between the two incidents.  

In the case of Hannah Payne

a.) there was another party on site with law enforcement/investigative background (a corrections officer)  That person determined that the victim (suspected drunk driver) was actually undergoing medical distress (potentially diabetic shock.)  In that case it wasn't just up to a civilians reasonable suspicion, a trained professional determined that the person lacked the capacity and agency to be criminally culpable for his actions.  

b.)she was on the phone with dispatch for several minutes, including during her pursuit of the suspect.  At multiple times, over and over the dispatcher told her not to pursue and not to engage the suspect.  She said specifically that it was too dangerous to engage in what potentially amounts to a full on high speed chase.  Even after she cornered the guy and cut off his means of escape the dispatcher told her clearly not to approach the car and not to engage the suspect.  

c.) When she did engage the car with her gun drawn she reached in and just started pummeling the guy.  Several witnesses testified that the guy wasn't even able to defend himself, let alone present himself as a threat to the young lady.  

In the case of Arbery, McMichael was the one with an investigative background and he determined that there was reason to suspect Arbery.  During the 2-23 911 call i don't believe there were those kind of instructions from dispatch.  And from the video, while the McMichaels were armed, there was a path to the driverside of the vehicle that Arbery was already jogging on.  He ran AROUND THE VEHICLE and allegedly initiated contact with Travis McMichael.  So there are a couple points of fact that are different.  

Now, to your point, there is case law that demonstrates that even while making a citizens arrest, if the citizen attempting to make the arrest uses undo force or initiates a physical confrontation then that doesn't give them license to escalate the level of violence or use deadly force.  For instance, if i am armed with a bat and attempt to make a citizens arrest, if you don't attack me and i just start arbitrarily bashing your brains in then that's still assault/murder.  So if the state can demonstrate that Travis McMichael just got out of his truck and tried to beat the kid up or shoot him then that would invalidate both citizens arrest and stand your ground.  I don't think that's what the evidence shows, but that would be a legal counterargument.

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