(05-30-2020, 03:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:

(05-30-2020, 03:12 PM)jj82284 Wrote: Where to begin.  
apparently by moving the goalposts... again

Now, I and Lastmin42 have been criticized for trying to "explain things away with numbers," or "citing statistics until they become meaningless" etc.  Now, If you're someone operating in GOOD WILL then at some point, reality matters!  If we're having a discussion about policing in America...
 I was having a conversation about repairing the large scale mistrust between p.o.c. in America and our police forces, or did you miss that for the ninth [BLEEP] time. 

then that means that you have to have an actual picture of what's going on   it's already been outlined ad infinitum, thanks in the country before you can decide A.) If there is a systemic problem and B.) how to change it.  Problems can be fixed.  People's perceptions/world view bias on the other hand is something that's completely different.  

In this case I have asked repeatedly, "what evidence is there that Race had anything to do with what happened?" DOES NOT [BLEEP] ING MATTER  - The damage is already done.  I'm not saying that it couldn't have had anything to do with it.  I am not saying that I am vouching for the character of the officer.  I have simply asked to show me the evidence!  If you can't show me the evidence of racial injustice in this case, then how can you reasonably link it to what you perceive as a larger systemic problem of racial injustice.  When it comes to your larger idea of racial injustice I simply ask again, Show me the evidence.  I have cited the numbers that show there is no such trend, LastMin42 has cited his stats.  Thomas Sowell, Black Economist, has written extensively on his analysis.  I posted the link to an article.  If we're to be a nation of common citizenship then that means that we have to be able to express and back up our positions in the arena of ideas to come to common consensus.  If you just want to shrink back into your world view or the narrative you find most cathartic then that's on you.  Just understand that's not having a rational position on an issue, that's clinging to your own prejudice.  That's unfortunately a sad part of human nature that is beyond common sense.  

If you don't want to talk about numbers then I'll bring it back to people.  We're twelve pages in, one city burned to the ground and riots spreading across the country because of "white supremacy" "institutional racism" "racial injustice" etc. and has anyone brought up the fact that two of the officers involved were minorities?  Anyone?  What about the fact that the police chief is a minority?  Is BLM blaring that from speakers?  What about the Mayor....  Minority.  Anyone talking about that?  What about the Samali immigrant congress woman who worships at the SJW altar?  Anyone?  What about the State Attorney General?  Black Muslim Male endorsed by the Democratic Socialists of America to be the head of the Democratic national convention.  Does that sound like a white supremacist institution to you? I never peeped a word about any of the crap you're asserting here. I used the term racial injustice and also said it's occurrence was much less than perceived. None of that other stuff. Sounds like paranoid conspiracy theory nut-job material to me.  

The LIE about the protests is that black people, or minorities don't have a voice in America.  There are a lot of black people in particular who sacrificed against a bunch of odds to move into positions of power.  I may not agree with every position they hold, the role of the state, etc. etc. etc. but it never crossed my mind that Eric Holder or Lorreta Lynch were shills for the White supremacists, or that they were proliferating the oppression of black people.  The problem with the SJW left is that they use "racial injustice" as some nebulous amorphous term to mean anything they want at any time they want to transpose the emotion from any tragedy of sufficient national attention that happens to affect a minority to advance their political agenda.  Then when you point out that most if not all of the people involved in said tragedy were minorities or progressives "oh well you don't understand...  White supremacy is in the DNA of the country, the poor black police chief is hypnotized by the either of Jim Crow and because slavery and the middle passage etc. etc. etc."  There's no solution to that.  There's no common sense to that.  That's not about sense or reason, that's about advancing world view bias not discourse.  

In this case, it's not about "the police need more training" its not about "they need to screen more" etc. it should be about "Hey, we VOTED (at 90% plus) for Keith Ellison.  We voted for a Jewish Maoyor." Just let them do their JOBS!!!  This aint 1950 where the City Council met at the local KLAVERN!!!
Hot take ^  (Weird, but hot)

BTW.  Anyone notice how even from the progressives they never say the solution is "hey listen, there's no way that someone outside our community is going to get in line before we do to take the badge and protect our community?"  Is TI saying that?  Kaepernick?  Killer Mike?  If you're going to go the black nationalism route at least go the masculine aggressive black nationalism route. No idea where do begin with this tough guy routine. ^ 

Comments in red. 

You can keep just talking about something different than what I'm talking about  - and then pretending that's what I was talking about --- but it's really lame.

Way to respond in Good faith.  

Again, you say "there is mistrust between black Americans and the police."  Ok.  Is that mistrust based on perception or is it based on material fact.  I and others have pointed out that in reality, its not based on fact.  It's based on a false perception.  When a lack of trust is about false perception and not a material fact then the only way to re-establish trust is to divorce people from a false premise!  

You keep saying "well vet people better"  and then when i ask "prove this incident had anything to do with race" you say that proof or reason or the actual connection of this incident to racial injustice is IRRELEVANT?  That makes NO SENSE.  If you're vetting for something that isn't a contributing factor to an underlying problem, or in this case a lack there of, then its not going to change anything.  And when it doesn't change anything then that means that there will be another incident that occurs and the false premise is still in tact. I think that your resistance to factual analysis has less to do with your legitimate belief in its relevance and a lot more to do with your love of the underlying premise and how it serves your world view.

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