(05-30-2020, 06:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:

(05-30-2020, 04:39 PM)jj82284 Wrote: Way to respond in Good faith.  

Again, you say "there is mistrust between black Americans and the police."  Ok.  Is that mistrust based on perception or is it based on material fact.  I and others have pointed out that in reality, its not based on fact.  It's based on a false perception.  When a lack of trust is about false perception and not a material fact then the only way to re-establish trust is to divorce people from a false premise!  

You keep saying "well vet people better"  and then when i ask "prove this incident had anything to do with race" you say that proof or reason or the actual connection of this incident to racial injustice is IRRELEVANT?  That makes NO SENSE.  If you're vetting for something that isn't a contributing factor to an underlying problem, or in this case a lack there of, then its not going to change anything.  And when it doesn't change anything then that means that there will be another incident that occurs and the false premise is still in tact. I think that your resistance to factual analysis has less to do with your legitimate belief in its relevance and a lot more to do with your love of the underlying premise and how it serves your world view.

first bolded question:
I've already answered this over and over. Are you just skimming this thread? The people's mistrust is based in reality and in a "magnified/distorted perception"  that doesn't reflect how often these incidents really happen. Both. 
I've also already said the false premise being propagated by both social and news media is yet ANOTHER issue that will have to be tackled. I merely hadn't gotten to the point of attempting to figure out practical solutions yet as I was still trying to justify my initial suggestion to you and others. I'd love to hear anyone's ideas on that. 

Vetting isn't only about race. Of course I've laid this out already as well.  It's about identifying those officers that are in it for the adrenalin rush and get off on inflicting force. We've all known someone like this. Also identifying any other officer prone to have an issue with violence or a general imbalance/mental health issue.  Basic "temperament for the job" stuff.  
So yes, whether Chauvin or any of the other officers in this incident are racists is indeed irrelevant to whether or not you seek to improve vetting, bias training, and force/brutality training.  You seek to improve those things because that's what is required to move forward in the court of public opinion and there is simply no downside to improving those aspects of officer training.  We'll just disagree on whether it would make any difference apparently as you believe it wouldn't and I believe it would. 

I have no resistance to factual analysis. None at all. Especially if it's relevant. I've been presented with plenty today that is irrelevant to the issues I continue to raise.  I do have a resistance to head in the sand logic, moving goalposts, and inability to read and understand a counter argument.

---

I'll say it again, your major premise is that there is an erosion of trust between the public and police officers, and that precipitates the violence that we see today.  My contention is that the erosion of trust, almost is almost ENTIRELY based on a false media premise, and the fact that our society has bought into the idea of "institutional racism". How many times do we see these stories not just leak out, but with false or misleading premises that try to make officers, home/business owners look like roaming klansmen picking random black kids out of college class.  By the time the truth comes out, the cities already been burned down.  
My point is that trust has to be based on a mutual commitment to truth and rational discourse.  So the actual statistics on use of force, bias, etc. are of the utmost importance.  Also, part of the erosion of trust is based on the secondary false premise that the black community "has no voice," or that there is "institutional racism".  I, again, contend that this is a false narrative to cover up for failed progressive leaders.  Keith Ellison is the black Attorney General of the state in question.  He could have come on the night that the video was made public and said "Hey guys, I GOT THIS!"  This behavior is unacceptable, and I will make sure that any criminal actions are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  YOUR COMMUNITY VOTED FOR ME and I am going to make sure these guys are taken care of.  Where was he.  I will give Marilyn Moseby and Stephanie Rawlins Blake credit for trying to get out in front of the Freddie Gray situation and they still burned the city down.  Black prosecutor, Black Mayor Democrat Governor, Minority police chief, half the officers involved are black, and what's the cry from the "court of public oppinion?"  Institutional racism!
Also, I understand your two points.  I just know that we've tried that before and its failed.  We implement policies to close the gap on incarceration, officer sensitivity, etc. etc. etc. and then we have a hispanic kid in south florida visited by police 40 some odd times but because he is in a certain class we don't want to put him in juvenile detention.  Then he walks into Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school and you know the rest.  Numbers matter because life keeps score.  If the reality is that the disproportionate number of Blacks that are incarcerated or interact with police is actually an honest reflection of disproportionate commission of crime then that completely changes of the calculus for the best policies to affect positive change for a community.  For instance, should that be the case and you enact policy either through legislation or through protest that cause police to pull back then you won't see a positive correlation to the removal of police presence, but a spike in crime and loss of both property and life among the community that you intend to help.  This again HAPPENED!  We call it the Ferguson affect.  The crime rates in Ferguson Baltimore etc. went up as police pulled back and the black community suffered as a result.

---

(05-30-2020, 11:14 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: Interesting news from Minneapolis concerning rioters who were arrested:

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/12667...25284?s=20

I really don't have much of a dog in the in-state out of state fight but...

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minneap...d-protests

---