(05-30-2020, 06:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:

(05-30-2020, 04:39 PM)jj82284 Wrote: Way to respond in Good faith.  

Again, you say "there is mistrust between black Americans and the police."  Ok.  Is that mistrust based on perception or is it based on material fact.  I and others have pointed out that in reality, its not based on fact.  It's based on a false perception.  When a lack of trust is about false perception and not a material fact then the only way to re-establish trust is to divorce people from a false premise!  

You keep saying "well vet people better"  and then when i ask "prove this incident had anything to do with race" you say that proof or reason or the actual connection of this incident to racial injustice is IRRELEVANT?  That makes NO SENSE.  If you're vetting for something that isn't a contributing factor to an underlying problem, or in this case a lack there of, then its not going to change anything.  And when it doesn't change anything then that means that there will be another incident that occurs and the false premise is still in tact. I think that your resistance to factual analysis has less to do with your legitimate belief in its relevance and a lot more to do with your love of the underlying premise and how it serves your world view.

first bolded question:
I've already answered this over and over. Are you just skimming this thread? The people's mistrust is based in reality and in a "magnified/distorted perception"  that doesn't reflect how often these incidents really happen. Both. 
I've also already said the false premise being propagated by both social and news media is yet ANOTHER issue that will have to be tackled. I merely hadn't gotten to the point of attempting to figure out practical solutions yet as I was still trying to justify my initial suggestion to you and others. I'd love to hear anyone's ideas on that. 

Vetting isn't only about race. Of course I've laid this out already as well.  It's about identifying those officers that are in it for the adrenalin rush and get off on inflicting force. We've all known someone like this. Also identifying any other officer prone to have an issue with violence or a general imbalance/mental health issue.  Basic "temperament for the job" stuff.  
So yes, whether Chauvin or any of the other officers in this incident are racists is indeed irrelevant to whether or not you seek to improve vetting, bias training, and force/brutality training.  You seek to improve those things because that's what is required to move forward in the court of public opinion and there is simply no downside to improving those aspects of officer training.  We'll just disagree on whether it would make any difference apparently as you believe it wouldn't and I believe it would. 

I have no resistance to factual analysis. None at all. Especially if it's relevant. I've been presented with plenty today that is irrelevant to the issues I continue to raise.  I do have a resistance to head in the sand logic, moving goalposts, and inability to read and understand a counter argument.

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(05-30-2020, 05:33 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: Reforming something that works correctly 99.99% of the time is worthless. Reforming something that was not the cause of this incident is worthless. Fixing the bad actors, publicly and sternly, is the fix.

If something is only broken "a little bit" it doesn't hurt to double down on fixing it, and here's the important part you keep ignoring,  especially when it serves to help a parallel issue infinitely more than the one that's "barely broken." 

Public perception and mistrust being the parallel issue.

Its not even a little bit. Its "not worth noticing unless you have some thing material benefit to gain from it" broken. Report on every single  one of the other literal millions of encounters that don't end this way and see how people feel then. Or magnify an infinitesimally small number of bad encounters and pretend  they are the norm so the sheep will think you're making some huge societal change when really you're just sitting back making a buck off of the morons. Public perception right now is that cops should be aggressively putting this nonsense down and every day this goes on makes that more true.

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