While I am here, I want to address the self righteous finger wagging from the right about the unrest we are currently experiencing throughout the country.

Throughout this country's history, we tried the non violent route against those of you who refused to offer us the same courtesy.

In the 60s, Dr. Martin Luther King preached non violence and African Americans followed his lead.  He was greeted with fire hoses, german shepherds, biilly clubs, axe handles, jailing, FBI surveillance, character assassination and ultimately, actual assassination.  To this day, some 52 or so years later, people continue to call him a communist womanizer.

Also during the Civil Rights era, there were black olympians who won medals who gave  raised fists on the medal platform-a silent form of political expression.  They were stripped of their medals.

Kaepernick silently kneeled on the sidelines-even consulted with a former Green Beret, on how to best express displeasure over the extrajudicial killings of African Americans by police and others who wrongfully asserted some sort of authority.  He too was vilified by the right.  He was called a traitor, disrespectful, and players who knelt were called sons of [BLEEP] by the racist in chief, urged to leave the country and blackballed from the league.

But throughout that time, those on the right offered no constructive criticism regarding how African Americans should express dissent.  I know I have asked numerous times over the years and have received no answer, other than to be called an "outside agitator" (despite at the time living here almost 30 years, and being told in myriad ways to shut up, some by past  members of the earlier iteration of this board.

As unfortunate as these things were, they don't tell the complete story.

A few years back, the overwhelmingly white Bundy militia were protesting the government's imposition of a grazing fee.  When the government tried to collect on years of unpaid grazing fees from the Bundy's, his heavily armed supporters trained high caliber weapons upon the federal law enforcement from strategic points surrounding the scene.  Notably absent from the conservative discussion were the talk of noncompliance.  Non compliance with directives from law enforcement was the blanket justification used to excuse the police killings of various African Americans.   Hannity and others on the right labeld them as heroes.  There were no shootings by law enforcement.  There were no fire hoses or tear gas deployed.

More recently, groups of armed white "militia men," some flying Nazi and Confederate flags, stormed state government buildings in Michigan.  They were belligerent towards law enforcement.  They too, were hailed as heroes by the right.  They received encouragement by the bastard in the white house.  Notably absent from the discourse were assaults on the patriotism of the Nazi and confederate flag fliers, even though they represented entities that actually waged war against the United States, killing thousands of American soldiers.  The right was silent on the disrespect of the military they alleged Kaepernick and the kneeling NFL players displayed.  There was no talk about the lack of deference towards law enforcement.  Just adulation.

Taken together the message from the right is tacit but clear...  the conclusion iinescapable: the African American First Amendment right to peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances is inferior to those of the white man to that of the white man to redress grievances- peacably  or otherwise-if it exists at all.

I reject any paradigm reflecting that.  Hell, you guys are taking up arms because you can't get haircuts or having to wear masks during a pandemic.  Certainly you would be furious if anyone suggested your first amendment rights are not to be respected.

Accordingly, those who do not acknowledge the blatant hypocrisy in those dissonant stances have lost any moral high ground to dictate how Americans express dissent.

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(05-30-2020, 10:57 PM)JagJohn Wrote:

(05-30-2020, 10:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: Your take is nave at best, disingenuous at worst, and in very little sense acquainted with reality.

You seem to think that since the passage of various civil rights legislation, racism in its various permutations has disappeared.  That is complete nonsense.

There have been laws on the books prohibiting any number of things from the beginning of time.  Every single state has laws against murder.  Have those laws stopped all murder?  No.
There have been laws against speeding since the automobile.  Does that stop people from exceeding the speed limits?  Anyone who drives can tell you that is a definite no.

Those laws, along with myriad others, carry  reasonably well known, well expected set of sanctions associated with them.  If you speed, you get a ticket, fine, points on your insurance and possible suspension/revocation of your license in more extreme instances.

Murder carries prison time, and possibly the death penalty.

Can anyone NOT a lawyer explain the specific penalties associated with the various Civil rights laws without looking them up or without engaging in hyperbole? 

Yet despite this, you think "racial injustice," however you defined it, somehow magically stopped witht he passage of the passage of Civil Rights era laws (many of which were weakened by conservative congressmen/justices)?

I am not going to waste my time showing all of the ways race based discrimination persists to this day.  Not only would it take years to research all of the case law and post an analysis here, most of you on the right would disregard it anyway (see Confederate motivations).

However I will offer you this article as a small example of how "racial injustice" persists in sentencing.

http://projects.heraldtribune.com/bias/sentencing/

Your premise is troubling on any number of levels.  It presumes that because it can't readily be proven on a message board without the benefit of discovery, cross examination, etc., it didn't happen.  If a sign on a business says there are job openings, I respond to the sign and make a face to inquiry, and the clerk lies, denying there are job openings available based solely or even partially on my race, without employing testers to confirm that or filing a suit compelling discovery, I've no way to prove that here.   More to the point, your attitude assigns almost a "Simon says" or "Mother may I" standard to proving racial discrimination.  The KKK could burn a cross in my yard, but because it didn't expressly state "[BLEEP] go away," standing alone, it still does not prove racist intent.  It also seemingly presumes, since tied to the passing of the Civil Rights legislation, that because discriminatory actions did not materially affect a right protected by law, it has no adverse effect on the recipient.  I assure you that is far from the truth.

But accepting, at face value your ludicrous assertion that most racism ended circa 1970 with the passage of the Civil Rights laws, the fact that it took a series of comprehensive federal legislation and Supreme Court decisions (Not traditional notions of common human decency or Christian values) to eliminate racism from the country speaks volumes.

Considering it's been only 50 years since the passage of those laws (using your 1970 estimate), and this country will be 244 years old as of July 4, the overwhelming portion of this country's history shows comprehensive racial animus against POC.  If anything, racist antipathy is the default-if rebuttable- presumption.  

Have things improved over the years?  Absilutely.  Has racism been completely eradicated from this country?  Absolutely NOT.

I may as well stop posting on here. Bullseye, as always, has absolutely nailed it, much better than I ever could. NYC also continues to make concrete, realistic points, that continually get ignored.

The tide is slowly but surely turning. America, slowly but surely, is in the process of coming to terms with it's real history and how that history still effects how society is shaped. I hope this can be a turning point for honest reflection. I'm fully aware so many of you will continue to deny what is clear as day.

Thank you.

As to your closing sentiments, I am not so hopeful or optimistic about this country's future. Anther lesson learned when comparing the disparate responses to African American peaceful dissent of police brutality and white dissent towards the government is to avoid negative results from law enforcement, it may be better for African American to walk around in large groups of heavily and conspicuously armed individuals. That I am even considering this should speak volumes.

https://www.tmz.com/2020/05/30/salt-lake...gKSAxquodY

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