(05-31-2020, 06:59 AM)jj82284 Wrote:

(05-31-2020, 12:49 AM)Bullseye Wrote: While I am here, I want to address the self righteous finger wagging from the right about the unrest we are currently experiencing throughout the country.

First let me start by saying that I have always enjoyed talking with you Bullseye.  I have always respected your intellect, reasoning and the way you articulate yourself.  That being said, as a POC, I have to disagree with everything about your basic premise in the strongest terms possible.

Your servility to those that hate us is your choice.  I have no obligation or inclination to capitualate.


Throughout this country's history, we tried the non violent route against those of you who refused to offer us the same courtesy.

From this point on you are trying to justify violence and destruction against innocent people.  

Justify it?  No.  Explain it?  Yes.


Also during the Civil Rights era, there were black olympians who won medals who gave  raised fists on the medal platform-a silent form of political expression.  They were stripped of their medals.

Kaepernick silently kneeled on the sidelines-even consulted with a former Green Beret, on how to best express displeasure over the extrajudicial killings of African Americans by police and others who wrongfully asserted some sort of authority. 

That's just a lie.  In this country the legal expression of justice is DUE PROCESS.  Whether it's Mike Brown, Rice, Castillo, Aubery, Floyd etc. there's no case in this country (that I'm aware of) in which the person of colors death wasn't investigated and prosecuted with the basic respect that we afford to anyone of any color.  Not liking a verdict, charge, or outcome doesn't make an action EXTRAJUDICIAL.  

There is absolutely NOTHING false in either of my statements.  The olympians were stripped of their medals.  Kaepernick kneeled on the sidelines.  Kaepernick consulted with a Green beret on how to best express dissent.  Right wingers trashed him for it.  Furthermore, I have zero problems with Due process being afforded to accused police.  Howeveer, your argument, or what you don't say in your argument, speaks  volumes.  In your pathetic attempt to jump on the proverbial grenade to defend in inherently unjust system, not once-either expressly or tacitly-do you give ANY consideration whatsoever to the due process rights of African Americans killed in these various instances, which is endemic with right wingers.  Whether you deemed them guilty or not of the underlying crimes, if any, that merited the confrontation with police, they never had the chance to be tried on the basis of fact or law.  Their right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," their rights to substantive and procedural "Due process," their right to equal protection under the law is of ZERO import to you.  That is the point you spectacularly miss.  Everything else stems towards your indifference to African American rights

He too was vilified by the right.  He was called a traitor, disrespectful, and players who knelt were called sons of [BLEEP] by the racist in chief, urged to leave the country and blackballed from the league.

He was vilified by the right, and that's nothing compared to the disrespect he should have gotten.  Anyone who posts about "revolution" while the city burns should be charged with conspiracy to commit the same property damage, violence and chaos that is being perpetrated on this country right now.  

[BLEEP]!  His vilification by the right began long before he said anything about revolution and long before Minneapolis burned.  Furthermore if he DID talk revolution, so [BLEEP] what?!?  Throughout the Obama presidency, there were constant references to 2nd Amendment remedies, and quotes about the Tree of Liberty being refreshed by the blood of tyrants from the right.  The only tyranny from the Obama Administration is presidenting while black.

But throughout that time, those on the right offered no constructive criticism regarding how African Americans should express dissent.  I know I have asked numerous times over the years and have received no answer, other than to be called an "outside agitator" (despite at the time living here almost 30 years, and being told in myriad ways to shut up, some by past  members of the earlier iteration of this board.

Another lie.  This isn't the first time this has happened.  Ferguson, Baltimore etc.  Don't break things.  Don't set things on fire.  Don't take things that aren't yours.  It's seems pretty simple to me.

Fine.  King set nothing on fire.  King didn't break things.  The onlympians didn't take things not belonging to them.  Kaepernick did none of those things, yet each and every one of them were castigated by the right for taking a stand.  All of them had their patriotism questioned and charachter assailled by having the temerity to demand what is cnstitutionally promised to all Americans.
As unfortunate as these things were, they don't tell the complete story.

A few years back, the overwhelmingly white Bundy militia were protesting the government's imposition of a grazing fee.  When the government tried to collect on years of unpaid grazing fees from the Bundy's, his heavily armed supporters trained high caliber weapons upon the federal law enforcement from strategic points surrounding the scene.  Notably absent from the conservative discussion were the talk of noncompliance.  Non compliance with directives from law enforcement was the blanket justification used to excuse the police killings of various African Americans.   Hannity and others on the right labeld them as heroes.  There were no shootings by law enforcement.  There were no fire hoses or tear gas deployed.

More recently, groups of armed white  "militia men," some flying Nazi and Confederate flags, stormed state government buildings in Michigan.  They were belligerent towards law enforcement.  They too, were hailed as heroes by the right.  They received encouragement by the bastard in the white house.  Notably absent from the discourse were assaults on the patriotism of the Nazi and confederate flag fliers, even though they represented entities that actually waged war against the United States, killing thousands of American soldiers.  The right was silent on the disrespect of the military they alleged Kaepernick and the kneeling NFL players displayed.  There was no talk about the lack of deference towards law enforcement.  Just adulation.

Taken together the message from the right is tacit but clear...  the conclusion iinescapable: the African American First Amendment right to peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances is inferior to those of the white man to that of the white man to redress grievances- peacably  or otherwise-if it exists at all.

Actually Hannity, since you bring him up, condemned the Michigan Protests.  I personally don't have any affection for the Bundy response.  But that doesn't change the fact that in both of those cases you had demonstrations against STATE AGRESSORS and you didn't have wanton property destruction, theft, violence against police officers etc.  To compare either of those demonstrations to the carnage being blared across our TV screens is beneath you.  


Hannity's "chiding" of the Michigan protest was more about its impact on law enforcement.  He did NOT assail the patriotism of those nazi and Confederate flag flyers, and neither have you or any other conservative participating in this thread.  Furthermore, as I said above, there was no wanton property destryction when Kaepernick and the NFL players kneeled.  You are purposely conflating the sequence of events.  I would say that is beneath you, but conservatives generally are unprincipled, amoral and fundamentally dishonest, especially on matters of race.  For you to be a conservative, such disingenuous claptrap is par for the course.

I reject any paradigm reflecting that.  Hell, you guys are taking up arms because you can't get haircuts or having to wear masks during a pandemic.  Certainly you would be furious if anyone suggested your first amendment rights are not to be respected.

Accordingly, those who do not acknowledge the blatant hypocrisy in those dissonant stances have lost any moral high ground to dictate how Americans express dissent.

And I reject any paradigm built on false equivalence.  

See above.  Zero false equivalency.

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