(05-31-2020, 02:51 PM)mikesez Wrote:

(05-31-2020, 01:39 PM)Last42min Wrote: To this day, progressives (specifically those in positions of influence) don't care about any of the ideology that made America unique. They no longer claim to want to refine the parts that are broken (and there were broken parts, certainly). They want to replace it with what they believe to be a superior system. There are those that believe it can be done via conversation and influence. Some take it too far. They rewrite history, when convenient, and twist facts to support narratives that will expand their base. They change language to adjust the narrative and demagoguery to silence their opponents. In the last 10 years, I have watched liberal minded thinkers move drastically to the left to keep up with the narrative that's being crafted. This gives rise to the ANTIFA types, which is spreading in most major cities. These people are much more overt about their goals and actively champion destroying America. Not only do the appropriate the black cause to advance their own agenda, they undermine good will and shared identity in the process. So, much like yesterday, I believe progressives align themselves with minorities not because they want justice, but because they see it as a bridge to socialism and control. Then, when the inevitable pushback follows the riots, they slink into the shadows and move onto the next cause.

1. You're shadowboxing. Even Marx said that the new society would have birthmarks of the old.  America will always be unique even if (God forbid) she gets taken over by communists. Anyone seeking elective office is by definition going for incremental change rather than revolution.

When I point out the numbers, I do so to specifically undermine the narrative that is being spun by progressives. It's not a tool that I wield with the hopes of silencing the black voice. I am just fighting a different enemy. I believe that destroying the narrative is important to healing our nation. Truth be told, I am all for looking at biases in the justice system. I have no doubt that bias plays a role in sentencing. We have to figure out a way to remove it, but it's clear that we are looking into it and we are improving. Even the article you linked, which was designed to condemn bias, made it clear that this is a problem Florida recognizes and wants to solve. Even assuming intrinsic bias exists and is a real problem (which I have no doubt plays some role; it's clearly evident in the sentencing between men and women), the solution is not patently clear or achievable for a multitude of reasons. I could go on about that, but it's really speculative. It's not like we have a clear  understanding of how bias works or ways to correct it. Personally, I believe the best way to remove bias is for a group to share a culture, which is why I think identity politics actually undermines unity and feeds intrinsic bias.

2. Regardless of your intention, the sentiment above is "the reason we discriminate against you is that you talk, act, and pray differently than us. So be more like us, and we'll stop discriminating against you."  It's despicable.  "All you have to change is everything you are." No. So long as they don't hurt anybody, no subculture should have to change anything as a precondition to equal rights and opportunities. A more serious proposal would be something like, the trial judge presides over the sentencing hearing, but the sentence is decided by a different judge. That second judge would only ever read a transcript of the sentencing hearing, with racially identifying information removed. That might sound crazy to you, but asking a whole group of people to delete their 400-year-old culture sounds crazy to me.

Ultimately, I agree with Bullseye, that I don't see things getting better any time soon. You ask the question how do blacks protest? Here's a start: Get rid of the leaders that exploit them. I think blacks need to recognize that the democratic party doesn't care about them except as a numbers game. They need to re-embrace the idea of the black family unit. They need to reject the current iteration of welfare that cripples their communities and stifles their economic growth. They should reject gangs that ensnare their youth and encourage the pursuit of middle class careers. I agree that they should to arm themselves and start policing their own. These aren't my ideas. Malcolm X proposed them. Imo, the black community lost a powerful voice when he was mercilessly gunned down. Malcolm X understood the power of autonomy (post nation of Islam), and would have loved to see how he would have helped shaped the black psyche had he not been mercilessly gun-downed.

3. I know you're getting this from Sowell but it's half-baked.  No-fault divorce and "great society" programs hit all parts of society at once. Poor black families started qualifying for food stamps the same day that poor white families did.  Poor black couples started qualifying for no fault divorce the same day that white couples did.  So, to the extent that there is a disparity of the presence of a father between black families and white families, is the disparity really correlated to race, or is it more correlated to income?  Or is it more correlated to generational wealth? Because one federal subsidy that didn't hit all races at once is the subsidized mortgage. White folks started getting them around 1934, but black folks across all 50 states had to wait 34 more years to get theirs. 

1. Not gonna bother responding to this, because it's useless, like most of what you post.

2. I'm glad Bullseye appreciates this, but it's putting words in my mouth. I said the only way I can think of to remove a bias is to share a culture. I didn't say they had to delete anything. I said we had to share it. I also find it odd that you said they have a 400 year old culture. They have a much richer culture than that. It's also funny to me that you suggest that the current iteration of the black community is in some fixed state of being. There's a reason Bill Cosby is in jail. It's liberals like you that want to place blacks in some box like pets. I'm talking about them creating their own autonomy and regulating themselves, and you're saying I'm saying they need to be good white boys. 

3. First of all, I probably get some of this from Sowell. He's a smart man, I and respect his intellect. You said a lot there without really saying anything. The white family unit has not stayed static, either. It's also deteriorated under these conditions. If I recall the numbers, for whites, it went from 5% to 28% and for blacks it went from 26% to 72%. There is clearly a difference, but the explanation for that could be the rate at which whites go on welfare. Welfare is a trap, and the rate for making it out of those conditions is not favorable. I concede that the advantage whites had as these programs were initiated may be a contributing factor as to why they did not need to depend on this system, but I reject the idea that it's not this system itself that is impairing growth in black communities. 


Note for Bullseye: That last paragraph was supposed to go in order of how I think things should play out. I am 100% in agreement that gangs are not supported by the black community at large. I just don't see how the community can defend itself without strong family units with a patriarchal figure. So, when editing, I pasted that last line in the wrong place. Strong family units first>reject welfare>police themselves>drive out criminal elements. The problem with democrats is they specifically don't value men, and, in my opinion, this is leading to many of the problems we are seeing, not just in the black community, but with our society as a whole.

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[BLEEP] ANTIFA. Seriously.

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