(06-08-2020, 12:26 AM)jj82284 Wrote: (06-07-2020, 11:34 PM)JagJohn Wrote: And I know how you will respond to me; by demanding proof of the ways racism effects the lives of people in the real world. Of course we could go back and forth with statistics about police brutality, incarceration and the economy, but what's the point? In the end you want to boil this down to numbers, numbers and more numbers, because you think that can somehow disprove the existence and effect of racism in America. All the while you ignore, or totally discredit, the most important thing: THE TESTIMONIES OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE OF COLOR IN AMERICA WHO SAY THEIR LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THEIR LOVED ONES HAVE BEEN NEGATIVELY EFFECTED BY RACISM. But sure, they've all just been brainwashed by liberals. And you conservatives dare to call liberals elitist [BLEEP] who ignore the voices of real Americans.
Millions of white people said black people were inferior, does that make it so?
There is no back and forth. Every data point is on my side.
Moreover racism in an economy this diverse is meaningless. It only matters in so much as someone's property rights are affected. When u allow individuals to have property rights in a free market economy they make their own choices and value judgements. The diversity of the economic system eliminate sthe capability of institutional or systemic risk/racism/ privilige etc.
For instance 20 banks are all racist? 30 employers are all racist? 1000 potential clients are ALL racist. And not just racist, but to such a degree that they will hurt their own economic prospects to indulge in bias? You cant make that argument.
Capitalism isnt about HAVING TO eradicate racism, sexism this that or the other thing to make everyone the right kind of person to make the right kind of decisions. Capitalism is about maintaining a set of incentives to make the WRONG kind of person do the right thing.
Your first 3 points in this reply are so utterly preposterous... I may as well just give up, you are way beyond reason at this stage.
You begin your argument about why racism doesn't exist or is meaningless by acknowledging that millions of white people thought they were superior to black people. Way to shoot your own argument in the foot right away!
More importantly though, it's a really weak justification for why you get to ignore the lived experience of millions in America because it doesn't support your point. White superiority was, is, an 'idea'; a terrible, damaging concept that people were, are, brainwashed into believing. But the harmful effect of racism is not just an idea, it is something that MILLIONS OF AMERICANS SAY THEY HAVE DIRECTLY EXPERIENCED IN THEIR OWN LIVES. It affects people in a very concrete, real way. You choose to call these people fools who believe in a non-existent Boogeyman. Again, the arrogance in your position is truly astounding.
Your second point is equally arrogant and blinkered to reality. Do you really believe that every data point is on your side, as you claim? That's absurd. I will concede you have some statistics to support your argument, because a reasonable mind accepts there are statistics that can be used to support any position. To say there can't be "any back and forth" is a display of hubris. I literally don't even believe there is another poster on this board who would be willing to claim that.
And lastly you claim that racism is meaningless because we live in a system with a diverse economy. Just gibberish. Again you ignore the voices of millions who can directly explain the negative influences that racism has had on their lives. By your reasoning almost all of the major issues in society are meaningless; bullying, mental health, domestic abuse... Are these things also meaningless because they don't affect property rights in a capitalist society? As humans we are shaped by the hundreds of interactions we have on a daily basis. To reduce meaning down to things that affect property rights is simply a cold and calculated lack of compassion for the human experience.
Your main points are so absurb that your entire reasoning is now showing serious cracks in it's foundation. I honestly believe that even many of the conservative posters on this board are beginning to see your stance for what it is, utter [BLEEP].
