(06-18-2020, 06:25 AM)jj82284 Wrote:

(06-17-2020, 09:28 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Yeah, this is the law of numbers. In a nation this big, we're bound to find examples of almost anything, good or bad, with relative frequency.

+1

Also, the plain reality is that every police officer walking a beat is both a.) the most dangerous expression of coercive state power and b.) generally the least well versed in constitutional and statutory law of any official chain in the justice system.  The Prosecutor, Judge, appellate judges etc. all went to law school.  Cops don't.  That's not to excuse un-constitutional behavior by police officers, its just to state a general fact.  That's why i fully subscribe to the "comply with all orders, challenge them later" doctrine. 

In the first video i was actually a little disturbed.  The Officer was basically reaching into the car opening the door dragging the guy out and with no announcement that "hey, i am going to search you or your car".  At that point I would have been weirded out and that's a good way to precipitate someone resisting your commands and needlessly escalating an incident.  

In general I am pro-law enforcement, because i understand both the importance and the rigors of the duties they perform.  That being said, I am also a libertarian/conservative.  The primary job of law enforcement is to protect the rights of citizens.  I think that in the case of Mr. Lee and aggressive policing i can accept a doctrine of "Pull everyone over, if you SEE Drugs or Weapons confiscate them and arrest.  or if you have REASONABLE SUSPICION, ask to search and possibly go to a Terry Frisk, but even within that paradigm I don't think someone having a bad attitude about being pulled over constitutes reasonable suspicion of violent criminal activity.  

As to racial bias, this is where we can't divorce black crime from police activity.  Black males between 18 to 39 commit the majority of violent crimes.  Black people make up the majority of victims of violent crimes.  So even if you aggressively police the population of black males, are you doing that because you want to protect the 6 year old black girl on a porch from getting hit by a drive by or because you went to a klan meeting and hate black men?  Facts nad context matter.

I agree with your point in regards to the first video where the officer did not explain the reasoning why he was opening the driver's door. Plus, he circumvented around the warrant-less search of the vehicle and his person(s) for drugs, weapons, etc. During a traffic stop you must identify yourself but anything else I can remain silent on, ie asking where im going, whereabouts, etc. From experience, if I give an officer more information than necessary or irrelevant to the interaction at hand, then that leads to giving them a broader scope of authority than necessary.

IMO too many people rely on the latter part of comply then challenge later sentiment. As we see now many complaints that are filed against officers, whether is planting drugs, bogus charges, violating rights, etc all gets swept under the rug. In some cases it could get expensive for citizens to escalate a complaint to a lawsuit, or they may fear retribution from a PD with future harassing traffic stops. With that said I am not anti police but support police reform. 

Black on black crime is not an excuse for poor police tactics, nor should be excused in regards to police corruption. If you have officers that are severely undertrained, who lack basic de-escalation skills or display unethical behaviors that has no relationship to black on black crime. That's a Police department problem.

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