(01-04-2021, 01:40 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote:

(01-04-2021, 01:40 PM)mikesez Wrote: Good video.
They didn't include all of the objections.  Corrine Brown also objected that day.
Not that it would have changed the outcome; Republicans had a majority in both chambers and any dispute between the two chambers about certification would have gone to the governor of FL, also Republican.
The objections we see on the 6th also aren't going to change the outcome.  Democrats control the House and enough Republicans have signalled that they have no stomach for this that the two houses will agree that Biden won each of the disputed states.

What's different is the sincerity.

In 2000, all Democrats really believed that Gore would have won if hand recounts had been completed in a timely fashion.  They ran out of time, and the Supreme Court ruled that they must honor the deadline.  No one accused the Democrats of posturing or insincerity - they were accused of whining and of being sore losers.  The deadline was just as much a part of the rules as the casting of ballots and the counting of ballots, even if miscounted votes could have been found if they were given more time.

In 2020, Ben Sasse says that all Republican lawmakers confess privately that they know Biden won, but some of them are posturing to improve their chances in the next election.  I see no reason to doubt Sasse's word on this.  Do you?  The dispute this time is insincere.

Any dispute can undermine a democracy, but sincere disputes are necessary from time to time.  Insincere ones are not necessary.  Right?

Wait! According to you, a video that didn't include the whole context? NOW it's a thing?

No, I just thought it was interesting to note that there was a Jacksonville connection to the story, Jacksonville's now-jailbird rep Corrine Brown participated in the shenanigans that day.

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(01-04-2021, 12:50 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Well, I had to read it because the video isn't working. It's easier for me to listen to Trump's ramblings than to read them. If he would let people talk, we'd have more information. Like I said, I don't trust Raffensburger, and I believe he's not being honest in that phone call. I don't like how he doesn't have an answer for a lot of the questions. He responds with "it was investigated," but never gives details, even when pressed. It's clear that he's not cooperating with the Trump administration with regard to voter information. Germany answers a couple questions, but only about out-of-state voters. All that aside, I get frustrated with Trump for not pressing an answer. He's so impatient. He jumps around too much instead of holding anyone's feet to the fire. 

As to Trump pressuring him. I think that's true. However, he's pressuring him to examine and give an account for the numbers being put forth by the Trump administration, and Raffensburger is ducking it. I am not privy to the exchanges that have happened between the parties in the past, but, in the phone call at least, They don't give a single detailed answer. From the transcript I'm reading, this is not on Trump, but it might appear different if I was listening to them speak. I thought this was interesting:

Quote:[font=georgia,]Mitchell: Mr. Secretary, Mr. President, one of the things that we have been, Alex can talk about this, we talked about it, and I don’t know whether the information has been conveyed to your office, but I think what the president is saying, and what we’ve been trying to do is to say, look, the court is not acting on our petition. They haven’t even assigned a judge. But the people of Georgia and the people of America have a right to know the answers. And you have data and records that we don’t have access to.[/font]

[font=georgia,]And you can keep telling us and making public statement that you investigated this and nothing to see here. But we don’t know about that. All we know is what you tell us. What I don’t understand is why wouldn’t it be in everyone’s best interest to try to get to the bottom, compare the numbers, you know, if you say, because . . . to try to be able to get to the truth because we don’t have any way of confirming what you’re telling us. You tell us that you had an investigation at the State Farm Arena. I don’t have any report. I’ve never seen a report of investigation. I don’t know that is. I’ve been pretty involved in this, and I don’t know. And that’s just one of 25 categories. And it doesn’t even. And as I, as the president said, we haven’t even gotten into the Dominion issue. That’s not part of our case. It’s not part of, we just didn’t feel as though we had any to be able to develop —
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[font=georgia,]Trump: No, we do have a way, but I don’t want to get into it. We found a way . . . excuse me, but we don’t need it because we’re only down 11,000 votes, so we don’t even need it. I personally think they’re corrupt as hell. But we don’t need that. All we have to do, Cleta, is find 11,000-plus votes. So we don’t need that. I’m not looking to shake up the whole world. We won Georgia easily. We won it by hundreds of thousands of votes. But if you go by basic, simple numbers, we won it easily, easily. So we’re not giving Dominion a pass on the record. We don’t need Dominion because we have so many other votes that we don’t need to prove it any more than we already have.
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[font=georgia,]Hilbert: Mr. President and Cleta, this is Kurt Hilbert, if I might interject for a moment. Ryan, I would like to suggest that just four categories that have already been mentioned by the president that have actually hard numbers of 24,149 votes that were counted illegally. That in and of itself is sufficient to change the results or place the outcome in doubt. We would like to sit down with your office, and we can do it through purposes of compromise and just like this phone call, just to deal with that limited category of votes. And if you are able to establish that our numbers are not accurate, then fine. However, we believe that they are accurate. We’ve had now three to four separate experts looking at these numbers.
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[font=georgia,]Trump: Certified accountants looked at them.
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[font=georgia,]Hilbert: Correct. And this is just based on USPS data and your own secretary of state data. So that’s what we would entreat and ask you to do, to sit down with us in a compromise and settlements proceeding and actually go through the registered voter IDs and the registrations. And if you can convince us that 24,149 is inaccurate, then fine. But we tend to believe that is, you know, obviously more than 11,779. That’s sufficient to change the results entirely in and of itself. So what would you say to that, Mr. Germany?
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[font=georgia,]Germany: I’m happy to get with our lawyers, and we’ll set that up. That number is not accurate. And I think we can show you, for all the ones we’ve looked at, why it’s not. And so if that would be helpful, I’m happy to get with our lawyers and set that up with you guys.
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[font=georgia,]Trump: Well, let me ask you, Kurt, you think that is an accurate number. That was based on the information given to you by the secretary of state’s department, right?
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[font=georgia,]Hilbert: That is correct. That information is the minimum, most conservative data based upon the USPS data and the secretary of state’s office data that has been made publicly available. We do not have the internal numbers from the secretary of state. Yet we have asked for it six times. I sent a letter over to . . . several times requesting this information, and it’s been rebuffed every single time. So it stands to reason that if the information is not forthcoming, there’s something to hide. That’s the problem that we have.
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[font=georgia,]Germany: Well, that’s not the case, sir. There are things that you guys are entitled to get. And there’s things that under law, we are not allowed to give out.

[font=Franklin, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=georgia,]Meadows: Mr. President, this is Mark. It sounds like we’ve got two different sides agreeing that we can look at those areas, and I assume that we can do that within the next 24 to 48 hours, to go ahead and get that reconciled so that we can look at the two claims and making sure that we get the access to the secretary of state’s data to either validate or invalidate the claims that have been made. Is that correct?
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[/font][/font]
[font=georgia,]Germany: No, that’s not what I said. I’m happy to have our lawyers sit down with Kurt and the lawyers on that side and explain to him, hey, here’s, based on what we’ve looked at so far, here’s how we know this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong.
[/font]

[font=georgia,]Meadows: So what you’re saying, Ryan, let me let me make sure . . . so what you’re saying is you really don’t want to give access to the data. You just want to make another case on why the lawsuit is wrong?
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[font=georgia,]Germany: I don’t think we can give access to data that’s protected by law. But we can sit down with them and say —
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[font=georgia,]Trump: But you’re allowed to have a phony election? You’re allowed to have a phony election, right?
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[font=georgia,]Germany: No, sir.
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[font=georgia,]Trump: When are you going to do signature counts, when are you going to do signature verification on Fulton County, which you said you were going to do, and now all of a sudden, you’re not doing it. When are you doing that?
[/font]

[font=georgia,]Germany: We are going to do that. We’ve announced —
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[font=georgia,]Hilbert: To get to this issue of the personal information and privacy issue, is it possible that the secretary of state could deputize the lawyers for the president so that we could access that information and private information without you having any kind of violation?
[/font]

[font=georgia,]Trump: Well, I don’t want to know who it is. You guys can do it very confidentially. You can sign a confidentiality agreement. That’s okay. I don’t need to know names. But on this stuff that we’re talking about, we got all that information from the secretary of state.
[/font]

[font=georgia,]Meadows: Yeah. So let me let me recommend, Ryan, if you and Kurt will get together, you know, when we get off of this phone call, if you could get together and work out a plan to address some of what we’ve got with your attorneys where we can we can actually look at the data. For example, Mr. Secretary, I can you say they were only two dead people who would vote. I can promise you there are more than that. And that may be what your investigation shows, but I can promise you there are more than that. But at the same time, I think it’s important that we go ahead and move expeditiously to try to do this and resolve it as quickly as we possibly can. And if that’s the good next step. Hopefully we can, we can finish this phone call and go ahead and agree that the two of you will get together immediately.[/font]. 

Bottom line, Raffensburger is not cooperating with the Trump team of giving them any detailed analysis. According to Trump, he is saying they have discovered 24k votes that are illegal under GA law. Raffensburger and Germany are saying his numbers are wrong but they won't show him why. None of this has been heard by the courts, so there is no way of knowing whose numbers are correct. Trump isn't telling Raffensburger to manufacture 12k votes. He's asking him to verify their numbers show them how they are incorrect. Seems reasonable to me. 

Pretty much nailed my guess.

Raffensburger's role in the Presidential Election is done.
He certified Biden as the winner, and now a federal deadline has passed and that certification can't be changed
Georgia's electors cast ballots for Biden and put them in the envelope with the state seal and the envelope will be opened on Wednesday.
Just like in 2000, you can ask for all the data you want and keep recounting for the next 100 years, but for legal purposes, the counting is over.
This is in Congress' hands now.

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