(01-08-2021, 04:36 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:

(01-08-2021, 04:04 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: I think my "argument" with you got mixed in with what I see regarding news coverage and how these events are portrayed.  Information being put out in the media (both traditional and on social) calls this a "violent mob that attacked the Capitol" while those same outlets called the riots last year "mostly peaceful".  They are not even close to being the same and the opposite is true.

Meanwhile you have the association of flight attendants wanting Trump supporters banned on flights leaving the DC area.

The democrat party supposedly wants "unity" and "calm", yet they are pushing for the 25th Amendment to be invoked and are pushing for yet another impeachment against a President who has conceded and has less than two weeks left in his service.  I'm certainly sure that's going to unite the country!

Then you have the President-elect saying that the protesters/law-breakers were treated differently by police because of the color of their skin.  Yup, that will certainly unite rather than divide. /s

Finally, the very premise of this thread is to lay blame for Mrs. Babbitt's death on President Trump.  Your first post in this thread even implies that.


A lot of people don't believe that there was fraud and the election was stolen because President Trump said so.  Many people believe it based on what we saw and how unusual it was.  Many people were angry because it was never really investigated and pretty much appeared to be covered up.  She lost her life because she was angry enough at our federal government that she made the choice to break the law and take a risk.  She suffered the ultimate consequence for her choice.

To the bolded in your first response:

I'm not only implying it. 
The woman who was killed repeatedly expressed outrage at the election being stolen after Trump published and uttered lie after lie, and baseless claim after baseless claim for weeks on end that he was being corruptly removed from power. 

His lies and claims needlessly led her (and millions of others)  to an outrage over something patently false. 

The election result has been bipartisanly certified. 

He is complicit. 

Still - didn't realize that was "the very premise." I thought we were discussing the woman's needless death and the circumstance around it. 

To your second response:

Like so many things surrounding this presidency, the baseless allegations of election fraud and your perceptions of the process based upon whichever media outlets you've chosen to trust are replete with misinformation. It's the unfortunate age we live in. There are "alternate facts" available from a multitude of talking heads and one can simply adopt the one most convenient to one's sensibilities. 

You've read what you've read and adopted a version that supports fraud and corruption affecting the outcome of this election. 

I've read what I've read and adopted a version that says there was no more fraud or corruption in this election than in the others I've participated in every four years since coming of age. 

How are we to reconcile that? 
I wish I knew, brother.  I truly do. There's a version of the truth out there for everyone it seems and the real one is damn elusive.

I think we are finding some common ground here, and we aren't far off from the truth... whatever that is.

To summarize, I think that you believe that this woman was driven to do what she did based on what President Trump said.  My counter to that is that millions of people think that there was corruption and that the election was in fact stolen based on what we saw and read... NOT what President Trump said.

The bottom line is we don't know exactly what motivated her to do what she did that ended up in her death.  It could be your version (what President Trump said) or it could be my version (what she saw on whatever media outlet(s)).  Either way there is a significant portion of our population that is angry at the government... angry enough to do things that they normally wouldn't do.

I don't know the full background of Mrs. Babbitt.  What I do know is that she served her country proudly and was a decorated veteran of the Air Force.  99.9% of the time if someone served our country for 15 years they probably aren't a criminal.

Her death was unfortunate and sad.  What happened at the Capitol was unfortunate and sad.  The state of our country is unfortunate and sad.

How do we fix it?  I don't have the answers either.  I used to be a real "tech geek", but I got out of that circle because I saw what was coming.  To me tech has turned kind of "evil".  Social media, traditional media, etc. has turned into a tool for both sides that can be a very dangerous tool.  The "information" spread by such tools is powerful.

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