(04-27-2021, 09:46 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:

(04-27-2021, 09:29 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: It's a gotcha question because it was preceded by a supposition that conservatives don't care how he/she/it stands on the issues. Remember stating that? So what else would you call a question that tries to reduce a choice to one question without any context?

As for the liberal thing (and your last response), I think most Americans don't really put much thought into political affiliations. For most of the US history, the parties differed on one primary issue: State or federal power. That's it. The constitution was the framework, and every other issue was simply about who got to make the final decision, the state or the federal government. In the early 1900's, you get, for the first time, a group that is pushing the bounds of the constitution, which are known as progressives.

For simplicity's sake, I am going to give a rough outline of how I think these different groups are structured. 

Conservatives: State's rights are paramount, strictly adhere to the constitution, limited federal government, favor individual liberty and capitalism
Liberals: Federal government is supreme, adhere to the constitution, big federal government, favor individual liberty and capitalism
Moderates/Independents: Balance between state and federal government, adhere to the constitution, mixed federal government, favor individual liberty and capitalism
Libertarians: Individual rights are paramount, strictly adhere to the constitution, small or no federal government, favor individual liberty and capitalism
Progressives: Federal government is sacrosanct, the constitution is oppressive, there is only the federal government, capitalism is bad and individual liberty is defined by the collective good.

One of these things is not like the others. Yet, Democrats are playing with fire by incorporating progressive thought into their platform, which is turning them into something fascist. They think they can keep the progressives at bay, but they are growing. Until the first 4 groups unite under their common cause, the progressives are going to keep morphing the Democratic party into something unrecognizable from what we have traditionally understood as American. I know you and Mike think this is just a passing fad, but it's a real danger. Tulsi Gabbard is a great example of someone who is seeing the writing on the wall. Even though she is a lifelong liberal, she is beginning to ally with conservatives because there is more common ground. Bill Maher is next. We need as many people falling under this common banner, because things are reaching a tipping point. I truly can't believe how much things have changed in the last 10 years. Biden is implementing progressive policies at a rapid pace. Our standards are disappearing. I beat this drum because we the people are losing power every day.

Regarding the bolded part- where the hell did you get that idea?  Can you quote me on that?  All I asked was, does it matter to you how she stands on the issues.  Where do you see that "supposition?"

Regarding it being a simple question with no context, if you think it deserves context, put some context in your answer.  I was just wondering whether his/her stand on the issues matter to you in your hypothetical choice to support him/her or not support him/her.  I was just wondering how strongly you (and everyone else) felt about the transgender issue and if it would override any other consideration.  No trap.  I swear.

Believe it or not, I am not always looking for a knock-down drag-out argument around here.  Sometimes, I just curious as to why people say some of the things they say.

Don't take it as an attack. I'm just pointing out the sequence of events. You stated that conservatives don't care about how a transgendered person cares about policy. Then you asked me if I would refuse to vote for a transgendered person just because they were transgendered. It's asked in a yes or no manner that is void of context, and phrasing it that way either confirms your bias, or creates an opening to attack someone for hypocrisy. Textbook "gotcha."

Generally speaking, I consider you a person who is genuinely interested in good-faith arguments, so I don't think it's a reflection of your character as much as I think it's a product of our political environment. Much of our debate ends up framed in this manner. If you want to be perceived as a person that is just seeking understanding, it's probably better to ask open ended questions.

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