(05-30-2021, 07:46 PM)Bullseye Wrote:

(05-30-2021, 06:41 PM)Tank Commander Wrote: So good to see that you are conceding on the Elway nonsense.  The Michael Jordan of QB talent evaluation.

You are moving the goal posts however with EJ Manuel, Couch, Losman, Boller.
Let me ask you this. How many NFL playoff games and NCAA National Championships did Ponder/Gabbert/Couch/EJ Maneul/Losman/Boller win?

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You delude yourself.

I am conceding nothing on the Elway point.  Drafting is only part of the equation.  Purging the roster of dead weight and knowing when to upgrade a position on a roster with free agents or vets is also key.  Once again, you completely DUCKED that argument.

As far as moving the goalposts, nothing could be further from the truth.  If anything I am trying desperately to get you to substantively address Tebow's shortcomings.  I have offered objective, statistical evidence that as a passer, Tebow wasn't as good as his predecessor in the position, nor was he as good as his successor in the position.  I have offered evidence showing that the Denver offense as a whole was less productive with him at the helm than his predecessor and his successor.  I have offered objective statistical evidence that the passing yardage decreased when Tebow was inserted.  I have offered objective statistical evidence showing your claim that Tebow was responsible for Denver's improved rushing totals was overstated, pointing out Willis McGahee nearly doubled Tebow's rushing output.  Nothing you have offered negates or even mitigates ANY of this.

Then I appealed to history and common sense.  You have offered the tacit assertion that Elway had some sort of nefarious agenda in dumping Tebow having nothing to do with football or Tebow's on field performance, minimally at best substantiated by fact.  I pointed out Elway was a former QB that understands the position.  You offered the missed draft picks, as if the failure of Elway to draft a good QB somehow makes Tebow a better QB in the analysis.  I pointed out that even assuming Elway had some sort of axe to grind against Tebow, that alone does not explain the refusal of every other team in the league to make Tebow a starting QB.  We have yet to hear you address that point at all, much less substantively.  When I pointed out that QB is such an in demand position, that even a guy like Rob Johnson merited a first round pick plus a 4th round pick in trade, while Tebow had a far lengthier on field record and could only command a 4th, you respond by incredibly offering there's no demand for a great QB and that somehow Denver's interest in ridding itself of Tebow eliminates the need to maximize any possible return they could get for him.

Your pathetic filibuster continued when you continued to duck my question about why the analysis of mobile QBs with limited passing proficiency should not apply to Tebow.  Long after I posed the question, as of this post, you have yet to address that issue.  You then became indignant at the idea I would lump Tebow in with the likes of Christian Ponder and suggested I should give Tebow more respect.  Yet when I posted links comparing Tebow's numbers were worse in most passing categories than every single bust QB I listed, instead of showing how Tebow's numbers were substantially better as to not warrant comparison, you accuse me of moving the goal post in offering those numbers for comparison.  If Tebow was demonstrably better than those guys, it isn't a particularly onerous burden to show how Tebow's career far exceeds theirs.  Instead, you pose the question as to how many playoff games and college national championships the bust QBs I have listed have won.

Unlike you, I won't duck that inquiry.  I will address it directly.  All of those QBs have exactly ONE (1) fewer playoff win than Tebow.  WHoop de [BLEEP] doo!  As far as college national championships....who in the blue hell cares?  Danny Wuerffel, Chris Weinke, Jamelle Holloway, Jay Barker have all won National Championships in college. (We'll call this group A) Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, John Elway, Dan Marino, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Troy Aikman, Patrick Mahomes and Brett Favre did not.  (we'll call this group B.  Which group represents the best NFL QBs?

As others have pointed out, it's sad that in a forum devoted to NFL football, you have to resort to college national championships to somehow puff up the pro career of Tim Tebow.  It's a tacit admission that his pro performance cannot stand on it's own merit.

Lol, Manning became available in Free Agency, all the teams tried to go after the HOF. It's not like Elway discovered some diamond in the rough. Elway's a horrible evaluator of talent, especially at the QB position. You still can't answer why he traded up for a spread QB like Paxton Lynch and passed on Dak Prescott. That was a completely wasted draft pick, a zero.

You can offer all the stats and medals you want but it's the stats you omit that are troubling. Hiding Win-Loss stats on Kyle Orton and your other QB friends. Kyle Orton is a career loser who throws up garbage stats and was too busy drinking and taking selfies. You've lost the ability to see the forest from the trees if you don't think winning is the most important stat.

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