(08-05-2021, 03:50 PM)Bullseye Wrote:

(08-05-2021, 11:54 AM)Tank Commander Wrote: Alot of the completion percentage increase is simply due to the short yardage West Coast Offense dink and duck.
So sure yeah 3 yard 5 yard pass, 10 yard pass increase the percentage.

But what Denver was running was read option/wildcat whatever you want to call it where the shortyardage was coming from Tebow,McGheee, etc. No reason to pass shortyardage when you can run and get yards and eat clock.  So his throws were all intermeidate to long throws which are lower completion percentages for everyone.

Once again you conveniently over look this in your analysis.

Let's take everything you say here completely at face value for the moment.

1.  The WCO principles to which you refer did not begin to spread throughout the league until after Bill Walsh won his first Super Bowl with the 49ers in 1981.  The more successful the 49ers were in the 80s, the more assistants got hired around the league like Mike Holmgren and Dennis Green.  They brought those principles to the various teams.  None of the three guys you mentioned benefitted from those principles, as Unitas and Namath played their entire careers before Walsh became head coach at San Francisco in 1979.  While teams didn't pass as much back in the 60s and 70s as they do now, the deep pass was a far more prominent role in pro offenses then.

2.  The WCO became so successful and so ubiquitous throughout football, many of its principles were incorporated into offenses even though they may not technically be West Coast Offenses.  Tebow's coach in Denver, Josh McDaniels, came from New England, where Brady dinked and dunked throughout the bulk of his career.  Even though Tebow may not have been in a WCO and may have used read option principles, to suggest the WCO had no influence on the philosophy on any  level is misguided and naive.


3.  Even assuming Tebow derived NO benefit whatsoever from the WCO principles you cite, it is beyond question he benefitted from playing his entire career under the 1978 rules changes.  Namath and Unitas retired from football before those changes were instituted, and most of Bradshaw's career was already over when those rules were implemented.  When those rules were implemented, Bradshaw won two more Super Bowls, including two Super Bowl MVPs for SB XIII and XIV.  Tebow?  Not so much.  Furthermore, Namath's, Unitas, and Bradshaw's receivers did NOT benefit from the anti concussion rules implemented by Tagliabue and Goodell.  There were no "defenseless receivers."  If you were a receiver and you jumped for a pass, you were liable to get blasted by a defender.  Tebow's receivers got far more protection.  There were far fewer protections for QBs back when they played.  Glancing blows to the head, etc. were not penalized.  Intentional grounding rules were for more restrictive for QBs than they have been since Tebow was in the league.  Back then, even if you were outside of the pocket/tackle box and you threw the ball beyond the line of scrimmage, you could still be called for intentional grounding if it was obvious you were trying to avoid the sack.  Tebow wasn't hindered by such an interpretation/enforcement of the rules.  During the Namath, Unitas and Bradshaw eras, the headslap-a move used prominently by Hall of Fame DE Deacon Jones-was legal.  So offensive linemen could not extend their arms to block nor could they hold the way they can now, defenders could pop them in the heads while rushing the passer.

Within that context, there is ZERO excuse for Tebow to have below a 50% completion rate.  That is reflected in the overwhelming lack of interest in him by the majority of NFL teams once his career in Denver was over.

He simply could not play the position effectively at the NFL level, which is why he was out of the league for nine years and is why he is trying out at TE now.  Tebow cultists' obdurate inability/refusal to grasp this causes much of the antipathy towards Tebow evident even now.

Nice try.
That's all fine and dandy but you are basically admitting that the West Coast Offense leads to higher cosmetic completion percentage. I mean it makes sense, 3, 5, 10 yard passes are much easier to throw and catch.  Even most of the long plays in the West Coast Offense came off 10-15 yard slants where Rice ran for 30-50 yards after the catch thus inflating the West Coast QB's passing yards.

The reason guys like Unitas, Namath and Bradshaw had low completion percentage is because they threw the long ball, not dink and dunk 4 yard passes.

Even your god, Peyton Manning was only a 56% passer over his first 575 passing attempts. And that was in a conventional West Coast principles system.

With Tebow, he was in a read option offense. There was no need to throw 3-5-7 yard dink passes because they could get that yardage on the ground while also eating clock and controlling time of possession.  Which means he was only throwing longer passes which correlates to lower completion percentage as was the case with Bradshaw, Namath, Unitas. I'm sure you can see that but don't want to admit it.

---