(09-06-2021, 06:30 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Not true about the color of the child. They do want healthy babies, though. Shouldn't be a problem with that if pregnancies are paid for.

I don't agree with your second premise. Having a child is scary. It's easy to wonder if you're making a mistake. It's not that hard, though. Also, I think a culture that values career over human life can exacerbate this issue. We could try to destigmatize working mothers and make it easier for people with children to lead fulfilling lives. One example is in work daycares. I would love to see parents being able to take breaks to visit their children throughout the day.

It does have merit, and the proof is in the pudding: Abortions have been steadily going down for the last 10 years (although I'm not sure California allows their abortions to be tracked anymore, so that could be the reason).

I agree with that, which is why I included that in my post.

Fair point.

I didn't expand on the euthanization bit. I assumed my jump to utilitarianism would suffice. There is a difference between a person wanting to end their suffering, an socialized medicine making choices for the greater good. I was attempting to connect those ideas in the same way I did with abortion.

I hear what your saying, but civilizations seem to only thrive when people are free to make mistakes or when people are completely bought into an ideology (like war) with a strong leader. Of those two options, I prefer the former. That doesn't mean we can't achieve something, but I prefer to err on giving people as much freedom as possible until they harm one another. This means people need to assume their risk. I'm cool with agreeing to disagree here, because it's somewhat tangential, but I'm not sure we are pushing for more freedom.

I know two couples currently on the waiting list who specifically asked for healthy, white babies. If I personally know two on the list, it has to be a lot more prevalent. As for the costs, having a disabled child just isn't about cost. It's about the constant health care that child will require, the constant worry about their health issues and how that may effect their life or mortality down the road and the wear and tear on the adoptive parents, having their entire lives revolve around the 24 hour care some of these children will require. It's not just about the costs. 

I think in many cases, this is a myth. It all started with people like Gloria Steinem and her ridiculous feminists agenda. In real life, very, very few abortions are performed simply because the birth mother chooses career over a child. In most all cases, the unwanted pregnancies are a result of much more complicated issues. I know the right likes to use career women who chose their freedoms over children as an example against abortion, but that is a microscopic percentage of the reasons for abortion. I don't blame the right for propagandizing this though. It was all started by the feminists movement. 

As far as daycare and childcare, the main issue with this is costs. My cousin has 3 little boys and her daycare costs per month is as much as her house payment. Luckily, she has a master's degree and has a very good job as a speech pathologist. Her husband was recently laid off though and has had to take low paying retail position and things are getting very tight. For people who don't have a job as good as hers, daycare isn't even an option. It's not a high end daycare either. It's pretty basic. I know many countries offer free daycare for working mothers. Some people don't like this idea, but what is worse, having free daycare or having mother's stay at home and collect welfare or having latchkey kids with no supervision, running the streets and joining gangs just to feel a part of a family? It's a double edged sword. 

That is a good thing. We can all agree on that. 

I see this largely as a myth. Maybe it happens in some other 2nd and 3rd world countries, but I don't see that ever happening here. 

Convincing people to enter a war is a helluva lot easier than convincing people they have too many freedoms and we need to "reign it in" a bit. We have passed the point of no return. That should've happened long ago. Americans are completely spoiled and we don't even realize it. They just assume that what we have, everyone has. I know this is a bit off topic, but my sister watches this show called 90 Day Fiance. These Americans fly to other countries to find love, because in many cases, they can't find a mate in the U.S.A., because no one here can tolerate them. Anyway, she's shown me several instances on the show where the Americans go to these poorer countries and do nothing but complain about not having toilets, running water, certain foods, clean facilities, how they have to dress, as well as a myriad of different issues. It's embarrassing. Instead of being grateful for what they have and feeling lucky for all the luxuries we take for granted, they just assume everyone in the world has the same thing and they complain when they don't have it, even for a short period of time. No wonder so many foreigners think Americans are spoiled. We are, but we won't acknowledge it. Just try convincing people in this country that there should be expected limits on certain freedoms. It won't end well.

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