(11-21-2021, 11:36 AM)jaglou53 Wrote:

(11-21-2021, 08:58 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: That could be said for any position. Just because you chose the wrong guys in the past, doesn't mean you should give up on drafting that position in round 1 in the future. I remember some people on this board, before we locked up the #1 pick and were assured Trevor Lawrence, saying we shouldn't pick a QB in round 1, because we had failed at drafting a franchise QB in the past. That's just crazy! 

As far as our failures at drafting a #1 WR, c'mon. Some of those were just boneheaded picks. Matt Jones wasn't even a WR and we spent a 1st round pick to experiment and try to convert him to WR. Who does that? On top of that, he turned out to have a cocaine problem. Reggie Williams was a possession receiver who was over-drafted and had no chemistry with our QB's. Soward was a pick that was panned by a lot of people and he turned out to have a substance abuse problem as well and just didn't have the mental toughness to be an NFL player. I truly believe Justin Blackmon would've been a really good NFL WR, had he not tanked his entire life by being an alcoholic. This team thought he could get passed it and we learned a very valuable lesson by taking a gamble on him. Of the 4 examples here, 3 turned out to have serious substance abuse problems that either tanked their career or greatly contributed to it. That just tells me that we need to do better background checks on guys before we draft them and avoid guys with substance issues. As far as I know, none of the top WR's in this coming draft have those issues and if they did, we shouldn't draft them. 

As far as Adams, Kupp and Hill goes, Davante Adams should've been a first round pick. He was my favorite WR in the 2014 draft and I was absolutely livid when we took Marqise Lee over him. Adams also has a HOF QB throwing to him, so he ended up making out like a bandit. Cooper Kupp is a tremendous WR, but he also has the benefit of playing across from Robert Woods. Those two make up one of the best WR tandems in the entire NFL. Tyreek Hill had all the talent in the world, but he fell in the draft, because of a history of off the field domestic violence issues. Even if he were available today, I wouldn't sign him, because he's a scumbag. 

I disagree about Williams. I see a superstar in the making and I believe a couple other guys could be stars as well. It doesn't bother me at all that he left OSU, because he was buried on the depth chart. QB Joe Burrow left OSU for the very same reason and ended up going to LSU where he flourished and became the #1 overall pick and has been very good for Cincinnati. Williams just wanted to go where he could showcase his talents and it has worked. He is showing that he is an elite talent, despite being a new starter and having a first year QB throwing the ball. 

As far as some receivers being not fast enough, how do you know? There are no official numbers on these guys yet. At least let's get some times on these players before making snap judgements about their speed. I think some of these guys are gonna surprise people. 

I'm just not sold on Godwin as a #1 receiver at all. He has the benefit of Tom Brady throwing him the ball and Mike Evans and Antonio Brown playing with him. He certainly wouldn't have that here. Allen Robinson would never come back here and he's basically fallen off the face of the earth, as his production has completely tanked. I also don't see any way Davante Adams comes here either. He would be ideal, but I have a feeling he's gonna try and follow Aaron Rodgers to wherever he ends up. I believe it will be Pittsburgh. I think Roethlisberger will retire at season's end, but we shall see.

There are a couple of things in your response that I agree with. Anybody who said we shouldn't have taken Lawrence due to the failures of Gabbert, Bortles and even Leftwich doesn't know what they are talking about. Many of these same people are already saying he is a bust. I also agree with the need to do better background checks on potential draft picks. I remember hearing comments from another general manager (Tennessee or Houston, I believe) who indicated they actually had one of their scouts hang out at a bar in Oklahoma where Blackmon was supposed to hang out. His problem was obvious to this scout and that's why they passed on him. Coughlin felt that he could control Soward's "bad habits" and we know how that turned out. He was so desperate for a speedy receiver that he likely went against his better judgement that Soward had too many red flags. 

I'm afraid that we must agree to disagree on everything else. I'd love the Jaguars to draft any of those 7 receivers in the 2nd round, but none are worthy of a top 10 pick. What was it about Jameson Williams that caused him to drop in the Ohio State depth chart at receiver prior to his transfer. He did indicate this in his comments. What does that say about his competitive spirit? I don't mean to unfairly judge this guy, but his decision would cause me to have a few questions regarding his ability to handle adversity as well as his competitive spirit. Even if everything checked out fine during his interview, I'd still much prefer players like Hutchinson, Ojabo and possibly Evan Neal. I know you don't like Neal, but I'm not convinced that he would be a bad pick in the top 5. It's much harder to find very talented big guys than those who play receiver and running back. Just take a list at all the 1st round busts at receiver during the past decade. They clearly outnumber those who succeeded to meet their teams' expectations. Chris Godwin has played the majority of his career with Jameis Winston, not Tom Brady. Winston cannot be considered much more than an average NFL quarterback. I'm not saying Godwin is elite, but he'd be a big upgrade over what they have now and is still very young. Pairing him with big targets like London, Burks or Bell would make things difficult on opposing defenses, especially when you add Etienne to the offense.

As far as knowing the speed of the 2022 receiving group, I do the same as you. You base your opinions on watching the games/tape of potential draft picks. Do they meet the "eye test?" Nobody would consider Drake London a speed receiver. I'd love to have him due to his ball skills and size, but he is not what I'd call fast for a receiver. That was my only point. As far as size, Jameson Williams and Jahan Dotson may need to put on weight to endure the pounding they will take in the NFL. Again, I'd love to have either of them- but not in the first round. It's even possible the Jags will have the opportunity to use one of their extra picks to move up to the top of round 2 if a receiver of their choice is still on the board. I'd be all for that, just not in round 1.

Again, the same could be said for Joe Burrow. He left Ohio State because he was buried on their depth chart. Does he lack a competitive spirit? Sometimes coaches get fixated on certain players and are blind to the talents of another. Just look at OSU. They have Chris Olave and Garrett Wilson. These are the guys Williams was behind on the depth chart and both are almost certainly, first round picks. Should we penalize Williams, because for whatever reason he wanted to go to a team where he was given a chance to showcase his talents. It's not like he went to some small school where he would definitely be the #1 guy. He went to Alabama, where they have been churning out more first round receivers than virtually any other school of late. To me, that shows he's a competitive guy. He went to a place where he knew he would have to fight to earn a starting position. 

Personally, I see a wealth of talent at the edge rusher position in this draft. It's a very deep class, whereas the WR position is more top heavy than anything. We need a compliment to Josh Allen at OLB, but we need a true #1 receiver. I just don't see one available in free agency. You mention pairing Godwin with London or Burks, but they are going in the first round in virtually every mock I see and London is coming off a season ending injury. I'd never draft a receiver coming off a fractured ankle. You never know how it could effect their speed or cutting ability. 

One edge rusher that I am kind of enamored with, but have not seen in first round mocks is Sam Williams of Mississippi. He has 10.5 sacks and 4 FF and has been very consistent this season playing DE and OLB. He's a real disruptor that sticks out on film. If we could get Jameson Williams in round 1 and Sam Williams in round 2, that would be a home run as far as I'm concerned. 

I'm not counting on Etienne at all next year. I hope he proves me wrong, but I have yet to see any NFL player come back from a lisfranc injury and look anywhere close to the same player they were before the surgery. It's basically the worst type of leg injury a skill position player can suffer, because of the after effects. 

I thought the same thing about DeVonta Smith and even Trevor Lawrence. Both looked rail thin and imo, they still do. So far, they have been able to take the hits though and have yet to miss any significant time. Maybe the weight isn't as big of an issue as I thought it was. Williams light frame is nowhere close to being as serious as Smith's was anyway. Smith was/is extremely thin from the waist down, but he's starting to hit his rhythm in Philly. 

For me, I'm not so fixated on one single position. I just want the BAP. We have so many needs on this team that we could virtually draft almost any position and it would be a likely upgrade for us. With that said, we just disagree on what players we consider elite. I know many people on the board are fixated that we must draft an OT early. I loathe that idea. The quality just isn't there this year and I don't wanna force a pick, just because it's a need. IMO, taking an OT in round 1 or 2 would be a huge reach. I wouldn't even consider an OT until at least round 3, because this class is so bad. I REALLY want to spend a huge chunk of our FA money on getting a LT, because I just don't see any good ones in this draft. If we can't sign Terron Armstead or Riley Reiff or trade for a good LT, I definitely franchise Cam Robinson one more year, because unfortunately, imo, he's better than anything we would find in this draft and we all know, he is nothing special. He'd just be a short term band aid, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Jawaan Taylor is the real problem anyway and hopefully, between Robinson and Little, someone could move to RT and be an improvement.

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(11-21-2021, 12:18 PM)Upper Wrote: Draft one of the pass rushers with our top 10 pick and then trade up a dozen or so spots to get whichever of the first round WRs starts to slip.

I hate trading up and giving up draft picks, because we have so many other needs as well. We'd fill OLB and WR, but we also desperately need an ILB, CB and OG. By trading up, we'd likely be sacrificing a chance to get good players at these positions. We HAVE TO HAVE an upgrade at ILB, especially.

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