(05-10-2022, 03:40 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote:

(05-10-2022, 03:31 PM)mikesez Wrote: Amazing.  Everything you just said is wrong.
The war was not necessarily fought over the right of white people in South Carolina to own black people in South Carolina.  The 1860 election was not about that.
The 1860 election was about if a white man who owned no slaves and moved from New York to Kansas to start a farm would have to economically compete with a white man who did own slaves moving from South Carolina to start a farm in that same town in Kansas, bringing his slaves with him.  Northern whites correctly perceived that anywhere slavery was permitted, it would locally dominate, even though areas that did not have slaves were overall more prosperous. Prior to 1850, it was understood that Black people became free if they were in the North, becoming competing wage laborers.  Even George Washington was not able to retrieve Oney Judge when she walked out of the executive residence in Philadelphia. But the Fugitive Slave Act, the Kansas and Nebraska Act, and the Dred Scott decision all combined to say that the was no place in any state where a free white wage earner would not have to compete with enslaved Black labor.  That's why the Republican party grew so fast in 10 years.  It was not intended to free any slave.  It was intended to contain all slavery to the South.

....now actually show where I was wrong.

Everything I said about Lincoln is factual, regardless of the revisionists.

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Geez...

*India is home to the largest number of slaves globally, with 8 million, followed by China (3.86 million), Pakistan (3.19 million), North Korea (2.64 million), Nigeria (1.39 million), Iran (1.29 million), Indonesia (1.22 million), Democratic Republic of the Congo (1 million), Russia (794,000)


......

That's more than ever existed in the US.

Lincoln was not a moron.  Morons don't pass the bar.

Lincoln won a majority of the votes in the states he won, and a majority of the popular vote.  Votes from the South counted.  The North was just too unified.

Only four of the southern states held referenda on secession.  And only three of the four passed it.  None
of the southern state legislatures operated on one person, one vote principles, meaning, even if you think it's fair to only count votes from white property holders, even then those votes weren't counted equally, with voters closer to the coast typically getting more seats than voters settled further inland.  The support of "the people" for secession was therefore dubious in most cases.  The Southern states of Delaware, Maryland, and Tennessee all had attempts to secede but the result was a vote to stay.

No one ever said Lincoln cared about Black people.  He respected them if they were soldiers but he didn't pay them equally even then.  

The Civil War dragged on for about as long as it should have. The South is geographically huge with multiple centers of production and power. The North bit off important chunks each year, and the South knew they would never win without European assistance that never came.

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