(05-10-2022, 11:04 PM)I am Yoda Wrote:

(05-10-2022, 06:34 PM)Bullseye Wrote: These quotes are from the article you cited.

(Emphasis added)

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Both of these quotes indicate he takes at least some responsibility in his departures.

What should be of greater concern is NOT his alleged lack of personal responsibility, but the fact that some three years after he was traded, we STILL haven't replaced the production of a guy most fans here stated overvalued himself.

What SHOULD be of greater concern is in the two seasons we didn't have him on the team at all after we traded him, we've won a total of FOUR (4) games.

What SHOULD be of greater concern is once again, the team has used two premium draft choice on reaches for guys the team hoped would replace his productivity (Chaisson and Walker).

What's interesting is that the people dismissing Ngakoue and Ramsey for asking for too much money have applauded paying Christian Kirk his contract.

It seems the crime isn't being overpaid...but being outspoken.

I'm not sure why we have to continue doing PR damage control for two players with bad attitudes just because they are talented.  But, ok.

The first quote you cite is not him taking responsibility.  It's him defending himself after the fact and continuing to blame the Jags for his lack of a deal.  And the second quote is not him taking responsibility.  It's him making an excuse. "Ngakoue spoke about a troubled relationship with the Jacksonville Jaguars' ownership, which contributed to him not being able to land a long-term deal as a free agent."  Still blame shifting.  That's the opposite of taking responsibility. The fact remains he has not been able to stick anywhere.  Since nothing in the article shows he has significantly matured in the last two years or so, I have no reason to believe he'll stick in Indy, either.  I wonder if that will Shad's and Tony's fault, too?

Since the player's words are not really defensible, you shift to whataboutism.  Fortunately, the options you present are not mutually exclusive.  I've bemoaned the ineptitude of talent acquisition under the Caldwell regime in the last two days.  And let's be honest.  The reason we've only won 4 games in two years is not because we lost Ngakoue and Ramsey.  It's because the roster was otherwise hollow and we had a putrid offense.  We had a front office and coaching staff that were, by and large, the gang who couldn't shoot straight.  

The issue I raised is not that I was afraid the two players would get paid.  Both of them would have and should have.  But Ngakoue thought he was worth more than was on the table and lashed out publicly at ownership.  That's just dumb in addition to being disrespectful. He is a good complementary piece, not a center piece.  The last two seasons prove that.  My issue was that they had belligerent attitudes and that Ramsey specifically had behavior detrimental to the team.  It seems obvious he set a poor precedent and Ngakoue fully imbibed of it.  Turns out that he cost himself the millions he could have made here, the place he could have had on the team and in the city, and the embrace of a fanbase that is predisposed to liking and supporting their good players (and their average ones, too).

So even though you got there completely wrongly, you are right.  The crime was never the money.  It was always about the vocal belligerence and classless stance towards the team and owners.

It's not PR damage control.

The very quotes YOU provided demonstrated some degree of contrition by Ngakoue.  I don't know how you can completely gloss over the whole "I didn't do my research" quote, other than to continue to grind axes against players who were productive for us yet are no longer here.  He didn't say "The Ravens didn't do their research," though if he were truly not a scheme fit for him, they should know as well...right?  Since they have had coaching and schematic continuity for over a decade, they would know better than Ngakoue would whether he would be a scheme fit or not.  Yet according to the quote YOU provided, he didn't blame the Ravens at all.

Was it poor form for him to lash out at ownership?  Sure.  But it's not as if the current Jaguars' ownership is immune from criticism here.  This is an ownership that has employed Mike Mularkey, Gud Bradley and Urban Meyer!  What...was Rich Kotite not available?!?  Baalke had a awful reputation way back when he was in San Francisco.  Khan hired him anyway.  As a result of these and many more poor decisions by Khan, Jaguars FANS have joined Ngakoue in poor form by creating clown emojis and attending a game with various clown costumes to describe the ownership. Since Khan has owned the team, they've had top FIVE picks SEVEN (7) times-which excludes the 2012 trade up for Blackmon-as well as two other top tean draft picks (Josh Allen and CJ Henderson.  You could argue that the team's ineptitude from the ownership perspective contributed to the failure of the Lot J proposal, which not only threatened the Jaguars' viability in Jacksonville but the revitalization of downtown Jacksonville as a whole.  If Ngakoue were truly overrated and not worth what he was asking, then his productivity should easily have been replaced by this team.  Pointing out what should be obvious is not "whataboutism."  In football, negotiations go bad plenty of times.  Players who don't get what they want from their employers end of bashing the team in one form or another.  It happens. Even this year, we've seen Deebo Samuel and AJ Brown demand trades from their teams, with Brown managing to force his way out of Tennessee. What is atypical, however, is the Jaguars' record of on field ineptitude under Khan.  There's only a few teams in league history who have earned the top overall pick in back to back years.  The Jaguars under Khan are one of those teams, and they earned that status by absolutely blowing the draft in many instances, and in the few instances we actually hit on draft picks, they do little to nothing to retain them.  Ramsey is a bad person, yada yada yada.  Ngakoue wanted too much money, doesn't play the run, yada yada yada.  Taking all of those allegations/assertions as complete truth, neither one of them are considered the very worst in the league at their positions.  Since their departure form the Jaguars, both of them have been on playoff teams or better.  Undeniably, the Jaguars cannot credibly say they have been better off ob the field without Ngakoue or Ramsey.  The Jaguars' fans should be the recipient of your scorn for bad mouthing the organization.  The FO should be the recipient of your scorn for putting out such a poor product so consistently for so many years.  The fans are still here (remarkably) and the team;s ownership is still here.  Ngakoue is long gone.  Put that angst where it belongs.

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