(05-19-2022, 08:23 PM)mikesez Wrote:

(05-19-2022, 08:08 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Dude. You still don't get it. The Overton Window is the range of acceptable mainstream discussion for a political topic. Having a discussion about whether or not an abortion should be when the heart starts is WELL within the mainstream discussion on this topic. If you ask anyone, it's at least reasonable to all accept the most fringe. On the other hand, saying you can abort a baby until birth is THE most extreme position you can take on this issue. You literally can't go any further (and even then, you still have people who are beginning to talk about giving a grace period after birth). It's well outside the realm of reasonable discourse.

The political left allows and amplifies these radicals, NOT because it's what they want, necessarily, but because they know it will make their goals more achievable in the long run. The Overton Window is a political strategy, dude. It's not both ends of the argument. The right is not PUSHING the discussion to the right by wanting to cap abortions to 15 weeks. That is left of their original position. Geez man. If you're going to Google stuff, at least try to wrap your brain around it. For the life of me, I don't get your haughtiness.

This is exactly what's happening with the trans issue, and your stupid [BLEEP] is in here talking about puberty blockers for 4 years so kids can figure out if they are a man or a woman. You're so freaking gullible. A smarter person wouldn't take the bait and move so far left over the course of 5 years. You just can't help yourself from looking through that window, though. Keep letting Pelosi and Schumer, the most honest of politicians, shape your views bro.

Gestation is 9 months.  On one end you have conception and on the other end birth.  You're correct that there are people who advocate for abortion-on-demand up to the point of birth.  You're correct that these people get amplified by other people who are less extreme but want to come across as moderates.  

But you omit that there are also people who say that elective abortion should never be allowed at any stage of gestation.  And these are also amplified by cynics who are less extreme but wish to appear moderate.

So even if we define the Overton Window your way, as a matter of discourse rather than legislating, you still have to cherry pick to arrive at your conclusion.  

And I never said Pelosi or Schumer shaped my views.  I said they were in power and that they were the most reliable source of information for what they would do with that power.

First of all... it's not how I define it. That is the definition. 

Secondly, I don't omit the bolded. IT WAS ALWAYS A PART OF THE DISCUSSION. At no point in history of public debate on abortion was there ever a group that didn't advocate for life at conception, dude. In fact, that group was the majority. Now they may be the far right, but it was ALWAYS A PART OF THE DISCUSSION within the mainstream. Now, it's starting to become less mainstream, but why? The Window pushes the discourse left. It's a political tool, and too many people in this country are not wise enough to it. 

And, I hate to even go here, if you really listened to these people you mentioned, you would find they talk about the Overton window. Their strategists talk about it. I admitted a place where the Overton window moved right, and Trump brought it. He brought it because he thinks like the left. He did it with anti-establishmentism, too, but I think that was more shattering a mirror than shifting the window. The right as an institution, has almost never moved the window right. You'd have to go all the way back to the Christian Coalition of the 80's to find it. It's a staple on the left.

---