(05-19-2022, 08:46 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote:

(05-19-2022, 08:23 PM)mikesez Wrote: Gestation is 9 months.  On one end you have conception and on the other end birth.  You're correct that there are people who advocate for abortion-on-demand up to the point of birth.  You're correct that these people get amplified by other people who are less extreme but want to come across as moderates.  

But you omit that there are also people who say that elective abortion should never be allowed at any stage of gestation.  And these are also amplified by cynics who are less extreme but wish to appear moderate.

So even if we define the Overton Window your way, as a matter of discourse rather than legislating, you still have to cherry pick to arrive at your conclusion.  

And I never said Pelosi or Schumer shaped my views.  I said they were in power and that they were the most reliable source of information for what they would do with that power.

First of all... it's not how I define it. That is the definition. 

Secondly, I don't omit the bolded. IT WAS ALWAYS A PART OF THE DISCUSSION. At no point in history of public debate on abortion was there ever a group that didn't advocate for life at conception, dude. In fact, that group was the majority. Now they may be the far right, but it was ALWAYS A PART OF THE DISCUSSION within the mainstream. Now, it's starting to become less mainstream, but why? The Window pushes the discourse left. It's a political tool, and too many people in this country are not wise enough to it. 

And, I hate to even go here, if you really listened to these people you mentioned, you would find they talk about the Overton window. Their strategists talk about it. I admitted a place where the Overton window moved right, and Trump brought it. He brought it because he thinks like the left. He did it with anti-establishmentism, too, but I think that was more shattering a mirror than shifting the window. The right as an institution, has almost never moved the window right. You'd have to go all the way back to the Christian Coalition of the 80's to find it. It's a staple on the left.

In capital letters there we find an appeal to the ancients.  And not even a good one! While we know that some among the ancients opposed abortion, which back then was only possible by taking a high dose of pennyroyal tea early in pregnancy, we also know that many of them turned a blind eye as poor mothers abandoned their babies in the woods to die, which amounted to an abortion but just after birth. Which by your own words you call the most extreme position possible. So that was "part of the discussion" as well

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