(06-01-2022, 05:46 AM)Bullseye Wrote:

(05-31-2022, 09:53 AM)Mikey Wrote: Dude, this is taking things way too personally. What word would you use to describe someone who thinks they deserve top five money or refuses to play for a particular team/coach/owner/GM?

I used "ego". Sorry if that caused you internal strife.

You lamented that many fans think the team has no use for a guy with Yan's skills. I simply stated that the problem among fans might not be the skillset, but the player. Maybe it's the price tag?

If our goal is to find a guy who can rush the passer and rush the passer alone, my thinking is that we can easily find that around the league without having to revisit the drama we encountered with Yan. I'd like the bar to be a little higher than that, but at the very least, seeking help from different players may end up more affordable, younger, or less distracting, and wouldn't that be just as good if not better?

What word would I use?  Perhaps "Productive DE...poor businessman?"  Maybe "overly reliant on an overly aggressive agent?"  Maybe "a guy who took the negotiations too personally."  Since none of us were privy to the particulars of the private aspects of the negotiations, maybe "justified in being insulted."  It's not as if the team hasn't pissed off productive players before. 

If it were a matter of price that caused the venom towards Ngakoue, why no hostility towards Christian Kirk?  He reset the market for WRs more than Ngajoue would have for DEs...and Ngakoue at least had a pro bowl on his resume.  Kirk has no such accolades and you're (not you specifically, but the plural you...i.e. you guys who trash Ngakoue) fine with him being overpaid. Under the paradigm of overpaid players/players who want to be overpaid are bad people, Kirk should be walking around in sackcloth because he accepted that contract or being tarred and feathered by the fans when he hasn't even cracked 1000 yards receiving in a season.  For perspective, fans here shrugged when DJ Chark walked out of here for a $10 million deal in Detroit, and he has a Pro Bowl and a 100 yard season in his resume.  Kirk has a deal 4 years and anywhere from 72-84 million dollar deal  You guys should be absolutely frothing at the mouth over the Kirk deal, but you aren't.  Clearly it isn't about rewarding productivity.  It's particularly confusing considering the historical Ketchman fueled aversion to the WR position many of the same fans here have had over the years.   It's even more confusing when you hear fans lament the lack of loyalty players have to teams.  Ramsey and Yan actually produced for the Jaguars at premium positions.  Kirk hasn't.  Hopefully he WILL end up being an insanely productive player for us, but he hasn't done anything for the team yet. 

As for your thinking we can "easily" find what Yan offered as a player, how has that worked out?  As I pointed out, since Brackens retired, nobody else on the team has been anywhere near as productive a pass rusher as Ngakoue was for us.  Since Ngakoue left, nobody has produced what Ngakoue has produced for us.  We've spent NINE (9) premium picks (more considering the trades to get Harvey and Groves) drafting DEs/Edge rushers and counting that did not and have not given what Ngakoue provided.  We spent:

• a 1st round pick on Renaldo Wynn.  He wound up with 13.5 sacks for us.
  
• a 1st round pick (#8 overall) on Derrick Harvey.  He wound up with 8 sacks for us
  
• 1 2nd round pick on Quentin Groves.  He had 2.5 sacks for us.
  
• a 1st round pick (#10 overall) on Tyson Alualu.  He had 17 sacks for us over two contracts
  
• a 2nd round pick on Andre Branch,  He produced 14 sacks.
  
• a 1st round pick (#3 overall)) on Dante Fowler-14 sacks for us
  
• a first round pick (#7 overall) on Josh Allen-20.5 sacks for us
  
• a first round pick on K'Lavon Chaisson0 2 sacks.
  
• a 1st round pick (#1 overall) on Travon Walker
  

Combined...between NINE players, they have combined for a total of 91 sacks.  Ngakoue wound up with 37.5 in Jacksonville and has 55.5 career sacks by himself.  If Josh Allen is to match Ngakoue's 4 year totals here, he will need a 17.5 sack season this year.

In fairness, Walker just got here.  Though I have my doubts, he may end up being a productive, impact edge rusher.

 If the team had a proven track record of finding quality edge rushers, I could understand the mindset that Ngakoue was easily replaceable.  If Yan were past in his prime, I could see moving on from him.  If the team were flat up against the cap, I get moving on from him.  NONE of those conditions were met.  Given this team's track record of monumental failure at the position, your position is wholly untenable.  If you want the bar for the position to be set higher for this team, you start by keeping productive players like Ngakoue.

lol, was you not around during FA?  There were alot of people hated what we gave Kirk.  But when you sign a player you sign him for what you think he will do not what he has already done.  When Yawn lands on a team that team cant get rid of him fast enough lol.  In thinkful we didnt set the DE market with him and give him an open check book like you think we should of done.  The offer that was report was much more than he has ever got per year.  He got the worst advice from his agent that can remember and he will likely regret that decision as long as he lives and especially when he retires.  He lost around 40 mil for not taking a contract that a team was willing to overpay more than he was worth.  Its comical you always blame the team for losing him when we offered him way more than he was worth.  The reason we have been so bad since losing them is because we had Dave Caldwell, one of the worst GMs in recent memory and then brought in the worst HC of All Time, not because we Yannick and Ms. Ramsey. 30 other GMs could of built the core on this team with the picks we have had over the last 3 or 4 years.

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