(06-02-2022, 08:32 AM)Mikey Wrote:

(06-02-2022, 04:35 AM)Bullseye Wrote: This board has a neat little feature where it can keep posts over a period of time.

Here is a link to a thread YOU created talking about the Kirk signing.

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...pid1456191

You are correct in asserting some posters hated the Kirk contract.

Interestingly, neither you, Mikey nor Yoda-the guys in this thread objecting to Ngakoue's asking price-were among them.

If he does nothing special, Kirk will make $2 million a year less than what Yan asked for.  If he maxes out his deal, he'll make a million a year more than Ngakoue's asking price.

All for a guy who never made a Pro bowl, never eclipsed 1000 yards in a season, and was never more than a 3rd option.

slow your damn roll, Bullseye. Never have I taken umbrage here to what we offered, what he demanded, or that losing him was a net negative to our on-field performance.

Everything I've said was that if we were looking to replicate his specific lost performance, we can find it through other guys not named Yannick Ngakoue, and more than likely those guys would come cheaper (either financially or through locker room chemistry/lack of distractions) than had we opted to give things a second go with Yan.

Why are you so enamored with this one dude? He was here for a minute, he was no legend, move on already. I tried to let this thread die, a guy on his fourth team since he was here ain't worth this much attention. But if you want to drag me back in, I'll come back swinging.

(Emphasis added)

A few points of clarification are in order:

1.  As I said earlier, I did not introduce this thread into the discusson.  I am a participant in the thread, though.  I had zero intent to bring up Ngakoue until I saw the thread.  It's odd I am characterized as being "enamored with one dude" when someone else introduced him as a topic.

2.  Letting Ngakoue walk was not the only thing than rankled me.  I did not like Ramsey being dealt, either.  Were there things about Ramsey's behavior I didn't care for?  Sure.  But like Ngakoue, I think his production outweighed whatever bad behavior he presented...at least until there was public acrimony by both players in the effort to force the trade.  But it shouldn't have reached point where the players felt compelled to act out in such a way to force a trade.  I could even see letting Ngakoue go if the team re-signed Ramsey, or the team had a superstar QB on a second of third contract.  Managing to alienate and lose BOTH without the benefit of a star QB taking a chunk of space just made matters far worse.  The only benefit that came from letting both walk is it made the team bad enough to win the 1st overall pick in a draft that featured Trevor lawrence.  But even that benefit is at risk of mitigation if the team does not put enough help around Trevor Lawrence.  Getting Pederson and Scherff helped with that.  I liked the Engram signing.  But it's far from a given the team will give him enough help.

3.  You mentoned he wasn't a legend.  Perhaps he could have gone down as a team legend had they retained him for a second contract.  His four seasons here left him second in team history in sacks.  Since being traded, he's added another 18 or so sacks, including 10 last year.  For that matter, he SHOULD have been held in higher esteem by the fan base.  Smeenge is held in higher regard, and he didn't have Ngakoue's resume, which goes back to my point about fans not valuing pass rushers.  Nationally, this team's identity is one of ineptitude.  But that 2017 defense, for a while, was changing that.  As much hate as we get from the national media, people still talk about that defense with genuine admiration.  Ramsey and Ngakoue were two huge parts of that defense, and both were traded away without getting much of anything in return for either in the analysis, though maybe Etienne and Walker Little will change that dynamic some.  Trading away productive players before they can achieve the status of legend is not an argument against the player.

4.  As for you coming back swinging, I would expect nothing less from you.  You can more than hold your own in any discussion/debate.  If you wish to end your participation in this debate, I won't drag you back in.  When flgatorsandjags said lots of people objected to the Kirk contract, when I researched the response, I did not specifically recall anyone's responses but my own.  I just found it an interesting and neat coincidence that you guys' posts in that thread I posted all seemed to endorse the Kirk deal.  That said, your further participation in this and any thread is your choice.

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