(08-06-2022, 10:21 PM)mikesez Wrote:

(08-06-2022, 08:53 PM)Bullseye Wrote: When were Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne ever "marginally talented?"

Vic was more talking about Dieon Branch and the other "stars" Brady had in NE before Moss came along.
But yeah, statistically neither Wayne nor Harrison amounted to much without a Manning or a Luck throwing to them. They were still number one receivers, but their numbers were puny.
So Vic drew a conclusion from that, maybe the wrong conclusion, but the numbers are what they are.
Harrison's numbers were still pathetic in Manning's first year in 1998.  Did Manning get better at the game between 98 in 99 or was it Harrison or both?

Both Harrison and Wayne were first round picks.  Sterling Sharpe, who was doing anaysis for ESPN at the time, said Harrison was the best receiver in that draft.

As for Harrison's pre Manning numbers, he had 64 catches 836 yards and 8 TDs his rookie year, 73 catches, 866 yards and 6 TDs his 2nd year, and 59-776 and  7 TDs in 12 games his 3rd year.  WHile those numbers were small compared to the rest of his career, those numbers would have him labeled as a future star here in Jacksonville.  His rookie year numbers were very similar to Justin Blackmon's rookie season here and exceeded the rookie seasons of every ither Jaguars drafted WR in team history. His 2 seasons of pre Manning productivity and his first season under Manning (while Manning was a rookie) easily eclipses the 3 tear totals of every drafted Jaguars WR in team history.

As for Reggie Wayne, he was drafted out of the University of miami-a school with a long history of producing talented WRs dating back to Eddie Brown  in the 1980s.   He played his first ten (10) seasons under with Manning at QB, and it took him about three years to develop into the receiver we largely know him to be. Manning was still Manning those three years and he wasn't overly productive.   His first season played without Manning was 2011, and Wayne still caught 75 for 960 yards.  When Andrew Luck came aboard in 2012, he had 106 catches for over 1300 yards and went to the Pro Bowl.  It wasn't until 2013-his 13th year of football, that his numbers really fell off-which were his last two seasons in the league.  Somehow penalizing Wayne for his production falling off in his 13th year of football doesn't make much sense, especially after he had 6 Pro bowl seasons.

Granted having a great QB like Manning can make a good QR very good or even great.  But to suggest their production was solely the result of manning and not their own individual skills/ability is disingenuous.

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