(08-06-2022, 06:21 PM)Bullseye Wrote:

(08-06-2022, 03:27 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: I'm not going to quote because it has gotten so long but will weigh in on the Caldwell/Baalke wide receiver conversation.

In regards Baalke never drafting a "stud wide receiver", this is true.  However, what is the sample size?  Yes, he clearly made a mistake drafting A.J. Jenkins at #30.  That's one mistake.  What else?  That was the only time he spent a first rounder on wide receiver.  He never spent a second rounder on wide receiver.  He never spent a third rounder on wide receiver.  All of his other drafted wide receivers were day 3 picks, so it seems a little unfair to criticize him for those picks not turning into studs, particularly if you are going to praise Caldwell.       

As for Caldwell, he hit on Allen Robinson, but otherwise I would consider his record mixed at best.  Below are his drafted wide receivers (in order of how high they were drafted):

Round 2 (#39 overall) - Marqise Lee - He only had 2,184 yards and 8 TD's over 5 years.  Yes, he had injuries, but even if you pro-rate out his seasons, he was never on pace for a 1,000 yard season even when he was at his best.  Considering he was a #39 overall selection, this was not a good pick.

Round 2 (#42 overall) - Laviska Shenault - He's only been in the league for 2 years, so it is still to be determined, but so far, does not look like a good pick.  He only has 1,219 yards and 5 TD's over two years and is known for making drops.  Also, keep in mind that in the very same draft, Caldwell passed on Justin Jefferson (Mel Kiper's best available) with the #20 pick in favor of K'Lavon Chaisson and then choosing to wait to take a wide receiver.

Round 2 (#61 overall) - Allen Robinson - Great pick.  No argument there.  However, if the issue is Caldwell's wide receiver scouting ability, keep in mind that he selected Marqise Lee over Allen Robinson with an earlier pick in the very same draft.

Round 2 (#61 overall) - D.J. Chark - He's been hampered by injuries, so he could be considered still to be determined.  Personally, I like him.  I think he might have upside.  He was a pro-bowl alternate one year.  However, NFL teams showed very little interest in him as an unrestricted free agent this off-season.  Despite record money being spent, he could only get a modest "prove it" type deal. 

Round 4 (#101 overall) - Ace Sanders - Out of the league with only 539 receiving yards.

Round 4 (#110 overall) Dede Westbrook - He had 1,788 receiving yards through 5 seasons, but only 68 last year.  He currently can't find a team that even wants him on their 90 man roster.  

Round 5 (#139 overall) - Rashad Greene - Out of the league with only 185 receiving yards.

Round 5 (#165 overall) - Collin Johnson - He made the team as a rookie, but was unable to make the Jaguars 53 man roster in year 2.  He's still active in NFL, but only has 377 receiving yards through two years.

Round 7 (#220 overall) - Neal Sterling - Out of the league with only 239 receiving yards.

That's not a great record.

I think a fair sample size for Baalke was his entire SF career as GM (2011-2015) and his two years as Jaguars' GM.  That's seven drafts total.  Given how easy it supposedly is to find WRs in the draft, for him to not have ANY competent WRs drafted furing that stint is telling, irrespective of how many first round picks he spent at the position.

As for Caldwell, I don't assert he had a great record as a GM generally, or a great record in drafting WRs specifically.  But it's beyond dispute he was better at drafting at the position than any other GM we've ever had.

TC's forays into drafting at the position were disasters.

In 1996, he spent a lot of late round draft picks at the position, with almost nothing to show for them.  His biggest hit was Reggie Barlow, who had one Pro bowl season as a punt returner.  1996 was a great WR draft, that featured, among others, WR Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens.

In 1998, he used a late pick on Alvis Whitted, who had arguably the biggest and worst drop of a pass in team history in the second half of the AFC Championship game in 1999.  For his entire Jaguars career, he had a grand total of 17 catches.  Keep in mind, his initial plan was to trade up in that draft for Curtis Enis, and that was with Randy Moss on the board.  

In 2000 he drafted R Jay Soward in the first round, and came back with WR Emmanuel Smith in the 4th.  Do we really need to re hash that?

In 2001m he used a 7th round pick in Richmond Flowers, and in 2002 he spent a late pick on Kendall Newsome.

Out of all of those year, the only remotely productive drafted WR was Reggie Barlow, and that was as a punt returner.

He was followed by Shack Harris.

Harris wasted draft picks on Reggie Williams, Matt Jones, Ernest Wilford, Chad Owens, Mike Sims Walker and John Broussard.  Wilford was probably the best out of that group, and he ran at best a 4.7 40.  He never made any Pro Bowls, though he did have one noteworthy game.

Gene Smith?  We've long established he never drafted any Pro bowl players and he was clearly the worst GM in team history.  His last year, he drafted Justin Blackmon, who very clearly had the talent to be a star, but had unmitigated substance dependence problems.  He easily ranks as one of the biggest draft disappointments in team history.  There was also a mid round gamble on Jarret Dillard out of Rice who never amounted to anything for us. 

In two seasons, Baalke has yet to draft a WR for the Jaguars.

Observing that Caldwell was the best at drafting WRs in this group is not the same as saying Caldwell was a good GM.  But "in the land of the blind...the one eyed man is king..."  WHen it comes to drafting acquiring productive rookie WRs, Caldwell's draft picks of Robinson, Lee, Westbrook, Hurns and Chark are by far superior to any other WRs drafted by any other GMs in team history.

Caldwell is the best of a bad group when it came to identifying/drafting WR talent in the draft.  Again, that doesn't emphasize how good he was, but how bad the organization's GMs as a whole have been when it comes to drafting WRs.

Context is important.  A Russian newspaper once reported that a Russian came in second in a race while the American came in second to last.  It was factually correct.  However, they failed to mention that it was a two person race.  Context is important.

You criticize Baalke for failing to draft a stud wide receiver but fail to mention that he hasn't used a Day 1 or Day 2 draft pick on wide receiver in over a decade and that was the one and only one time he had ever done so.  With that one single exception, his inability to draft a stud wide receiver is a matter of not making a serious effort to do so instead of him trying and failing.  Context is important.  

As for Caldwell, you said that there was no reason to believe the Jaguars could do better at drafting a wide receiver than if Caldwell did it.  I don't believe in voodoo Jaguar curses and therefore the record of Coughlin/Harris/Smith is irrelevant.  If Caldwell sucked slightly less than them at drafting wide receivers, it doesn't mean we have to accept that as the best that we can ever do.  Caldwell's record at wide receiver is mixed at best.  It's not unreasonable to expect the Jaguars going forward to do better than Caldwell.  That was the original argument.

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