(08-25-2022, 09:48 PM)EricC85 Wrote: I still think if your going down this road it should be tied to social security.

If you write off or cancel 20k in student loans deduct 20k from social security paid to that individual at retirement. That would lighten the demand on social security in the future, provide this "relief" they're claiming is needed and not cost the tax payers anything long term. Think of it as an advance on social security applied to their loans. In reality most of them won't see a dime of social security but pay into it most of there working lives anyway.

But the way it's being done now, hard no bad idea. And I have student loans I'm paying on. It'll cost me more in inflation then they're forgiving in the long run.

(08-25-2022, 06:52 PM)mikesez Wrote:

(08-25-2022, 04:40 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: I remember watching a season of This Old House on PBS several years ago and they were working in partnership with Mike Rowe in trying to get kids interested in working in the trades since there is a huge shortage. The majority of skilled trades workers are aging out of the work force and there aren't enough people coming in to replace them.

I used to wonder why going to college was pushed so hard in television shows, movies and schools. Especially after the first time I heard years ago from a coworker that you don't go to college to learn a career you go for the experience. That made 100% no sense to me. Why are you going to go into that kind of debt for an experience? I understand now. They push it so they can indoctrinate you. I didn't see it for a long time and still don't want to believe it, but they're no longer even trying to hide it. They're calling it what it is.

Pushing college and ignoring the trades makes this country weaker by not giving people the chance to own their business, work for themselves, make good money and owe barely anything for learning their trade. It's definitely pushing ideas that harm this country and putting folks in the position to be bought for votes.

I haven't been enrolled at any university for 12 years, and they were both public and both in Florida, but I have to disagree HARD with the idea that its about indoctrination.  I took engineering classes.  Other than the psych class I had to take as a Gen Ed, there was literally zero content with any kind of social or political angle at all. I had friends who were English majors, History majors, and political science majors.  All of them were politically conservative and remain so today.  None of them reported that they were subjected to pressure to "convert" politically.  

I mean there is no denying that certain universities have developed reputations as super liberal places, and those reputations get reinforced by students and professors that are already liberal choosing to go there over the years.  But most universities aren't like that.  

I agree that the media and entertainment have massively normalized a "you've failed if you don't go to college" attitude.  But I think they may have been following the lead of the masses, rather than leading.  The de-industrialization of America starting in the mid 1980s said that the jobs of yesterday wouldn't be available for the workers of tomorrow. Parents saw this and believed it and warned their kids accordingly.  And the prophesy has proven true, even though many of the new jobs ended up not really needing college.  

So yes, we as a country could have reacted better to these pressures, but, it wasn't about indoctrination. 

Also, I've helped hire people and I'm friends with recruiters.  It's true that there are many jobs saying they require a degree when there's nothing in the job duties to suggest you needed that degree.  But what these managers are really saying, in many cases, is they don't want 18 year olds to apply.  You can't come out and say that in a job post, of course, but that's what they mean.