(11-01-2022, 11:22 PM)mikesez Wrote:

(11-01-2022, 09:40 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: Did I post anything in favor of the Khazar hypothesis? That link I posted explicitly disproves that. You don't actually understand what you talk about half the time (and that's being generous). Every once in a while, you surprise me. Most times, you're a parrot. Jews... the religious ones, actually use a matriarchal lineage as outlined by the Torah. So, there goes your next point right out the window.

I have stated in no uncertain terms that there is a danger in Kanye castigating a group of people without sufficient qualifiers (though I think jewish media at least attempts to make a distinction). I stated that it is a fool's errand to mention any heritage, because these people hide behind it. My point of bringing it up is that they are primarily of European decent, and they get a get-out-of-jail-free card they get to use because you can't say Jew in a sentence. Hitler was bad. We get it. This elite group to which Kanye and some others are referring are also exploitative. We should be able to have a conversation about that. The entertainment and media complex in this country is filtered through a very small cadre of people that literally get to shape the national discussion and can and do influence and manipulate markets.

Also, lol at you thinking you can pick the average Jew out of a lineup. Geez, dude.

Your initial, unqualified claim that Ashkenazi Jews are "mostly European" is essentially the Khazar hypothesis.

The Torah speaks in terms of patrilineal ancestry in general, with specific and limited exceptions.  The Talmud, a later, less attested, and post-Christian document, says matrilineal.  Historically, Christianity has taught that only Jewish documents that are prior to Jesus are important or inspired.   Modern Jews are afraid of future persecution, and in the US that would only ever plausibly come with the permission of American Christians, Christians who are unlikely to give much credit to your theory that Ashkenazi Jews are "mostly European".  

My father is Jewish.  Jews enjoy learning how to pick each other out of a crowd. He has a surprisingly high success rate.  I'm sure I've picked up some of his skills. Even if you doubt this, the last names are dead giveaways for most Ashkenazi Jews.  Remember last names werent a thing 500 years ago.  People started adopting them later.  Any Ashkenazi Jew who was in German or Russian or Austrian imperial realms adopted a distinctly Yiddish last name. Only the tiny number of French, Swiss, Scandinavian, and British Jews were able to get more ordinary sounding last names.  The Nazis imprisoned and killed Jews who had been baptized as Christians.  Some had even adopted new names and raised children as Christians.  The Nazis were able to "pick them out of a lineup" not only due to distinctive hair and facial features but also with the help of their last names.  And this is academic in the 21st century anyhow, we have DNA testing.  A future government somewhere that wishes to finish what the Nazis started will probably use DNA tests before executing their victims.

Altogether your writing on this topic, and your instinct to defend Kanye, speak to an ignorance of how these things can advance from "just asking questions" to genocide.  Or perhaps you truly have malice or mental illness.

If you really cared about taking down elites and making a more fair and open society, you wouldn't care that one of the elites is in a racist fight with the other elites.

Stop. You're so full of [BLEEP]. How about you refute my points instead of whatever the hell that post was. 

I posted an actual scientific article that looks at actual DNA and literally qualified why what most of what I said was true while ALSO dispelling the Khazar hypothesis, and the first thing you say was that my points were unqualified. It must be nice to go through life with your head up your [BLEEP]. Instead of just owning it, you are now claiming I have a mental illness? [BLEEP] OFF with that [BLEEP]. Seriously, go [BLEEP] yourself you non-thinking twit. 

You know what's funny about you? I had this same exact conversation with my Ashkenazi Jew friend from NY. You know what he said? "You're right." He brought up some personal, relevant points that added to the conversation, and I have incorporated them into my thinking. But that's to be expected in an intelligent, productive conversation, which I rarely have with you because you try so hard to be the smartest guy in the room. I don't mind you correcting an incorrect number or fact I put out there from memory. In fact, I welcome it. I don't mind you sharing your personal experiences with the subject. I welcome it. What I can't stand is you constantly trying to twist facts and distort a conversation fit the narrative you are choosing to support. 

You wrongly go on about the patriarchal lineage, which is only important in the priesthood in Judaism. The entirety of Judaism uses the matriarchal lineage to determine whether or not a person is a Jew. That's actually how it's done. We don't need to go back to the Christian interpretation of the Torah to figure that out. Not that it matters to my point. Then you go on about Christian protection of the Jews. What's that got to do with my point? Then you talk about surnames. Nothing to do with my point. Then we're on to your Jewish dad taught himself to find other Jews. You really think that refutes the scientific claim that their DNA is mostly European? Literally everything you wrote was an attempt to refute one small point that I made referring to the European ancestry of Jews, and not one single thing in that post actually accomplished that goal. Not one. 

You always choose to pick the must subjective part of my post to attack (your mo), and conveniently ignore all of the facts. Doesn't it say something that it had to be a "game" to find the Jew? Do you have to do that with blacks, Asians, or Latino Americans. And before you go on your white/black Hispanic [BLEEP], keep in mind, that the reason the "white" Hispanics are so distinct is because THEY ARE OF MOSTLY EUROPEAN DECENT! I never claimed that DNA testing couldn't identify Ashkenazi Jews. Only that the average person isn't going to be able to tell the difference. I should have known that you had some special Jew detecting ability that you inherited from your dad. My bad. 

My point, since you argue everything EXCEPT THAT, was that there is a group of people that culturally identify as a Jewish race, that neither practices the religion nor has a large amount of racially distinct DNA, and they have every benefit of all the "white privilege" we keep hearing about. They are largely successful, come from strong families, make more money, etc. They don't need to be sent off to gas camps. They don't need to change their cultural identity. They aren't inferior or more dangerous than any other group of people in America. I'm just simply asking why they get to hide behind identity? Literally everything the left is doing is centered around identity politics, and you want to cancel Kanye for mentioning identity? Lol. Why are they the ONLY group that can't be identified? 

Kanye made a mistake in mentioning their heritage, as I have said multiple times, but it doesn't justify ignoring the FACT that a small group of powerful people exploit us for their gain. And I'm not going to ignore his point because he said the Jewish media. It's largely run by Jews. Gasp! Oh noes... we can't state facts any more or people while DIE!  This isn't 1930's Germany. Could it be? Sure? But then again, it could be 1960's USSR, too. It can be anything we make it. Until he specifically says Jews need to be removed from this country, rounded up, and gassed, I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt instead of demanding he lose his job. Which, btw, is the single most atrocious thing said in this thread or by Kanye. 

For the record, I don't give two [BLEEP] about Kanye. I think he's a narcissistic guy with Asperger's who is a really talented musician. I think he's inarticulate. I don't think he's dumb, though. I think he recognizes that he's being taken advantage of and spoke about his actual EXPERIENCE. There is a danger in him choosing to express himself in this way, which I have acknowledged. The black community already has a bias against the Jewish community, and his disregard for his word choices can exacerbate that. He needs to find a way to express his opinion in a way that doesn't I acknowledge that as well. You will ignore the ENTIRETY of this last paragraph because you want to argue some abstract point that doesn't matter. 

Truth be told, I'm tired of identity politics. It's just a tool that is used to manipulate. It's made worse by a small cadre of elites that have gotten exceptionally good at manipulating the masses. Are all exploitative people Jews? No. Of course not. LET ME EMPHASIZE THAT. However, that is Kanye's experience, and he is wrongfully, imo, putting an emphasis on that.

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