(02-12-2023, 10:44 PM)mikesez Wrote: Most of the values discussed here can be spun as positives, if you adopt them, or negatives if you don't.  "The mother gets to stay home" vs "the woman is forced to have a baby and stay home with it".

But the race aspect can't be spun, of course.  We aren't debating if other traditional values are good.  Personally I think most of them are.  We are debating how prominent racism was, among the traditional values we used to have.  In my opinion it was by far the biggest and it infected the others.  Consider chastity.  Great value.  The Tulsa race riot was triggered by rumors of interracial flirting in a department store.  The Rosewood massacre was caused by rumors of a black man attempting to rape a white woman near a rail yard.  Earlier generations believed in chastity.  But they didn't riot about violations of chastity.  They rioted about racially charged violations.