(02-13-2023, 03:38 AM)captivating Wrote:

(02-12-2023, 05:09 PM)americus 2.0 Wrote: I had to come back to this and ask, do you really think this is true? I know a lot of folks with traditional values and 100% of them do not think the way you describe. Some may hold to some stricter traditions than others, but not any of them are living like it's 1953. 

Traditional values would be a man and woman who are married and may/may not have kids. That the husband is the head of the household. Kids are taught to respect everyone, especially those who are older. Abstain from sex before marriage. Work hard and provide for your family. Going to church. DoIng things in your community to help others. 

Not a single traditional value has anything to do with racism or seeing anyone as second class citizens. The folks who do, do so because they are just bitter people, or they were raised by haters, not because of traditional values. There folks without traditional values being taught to be hateful. 

Those values have nothing to do with who goes to what church. It used to bother me that the majority of churches I've seen do tend toward being all white or all black. A black friend of mine said white churches just aren't loud and lively enough, that our cultures are too different. My sister in Ohio is married to a Korean fellow and on Sundays he goes to the Korean church and she goes to the non-Korean church. He says it's a cultural thing. Yes, that word again. But I've seen multicultural churches in big cities (think NYC) that are really fantastic. Why do they work in big cities and not smaller towns? I wish they did.

I think a lot of issues that are seen as racial or racist are very much cultural or nationality differences. It has nothing to do with not liking another person because of their skin color but rather not relating to their culture or nationality. Yes, there is racism. Outright and ugly racism. And it's wrong on every level. But not everything is about race to the average person. It just isn't. But the media and the entertainment industry want us to think it is because that's how they make money. I won't even go into how politicians use it to their advantage. 

It really does bother me that people think the way you described because it is not true of a lot of people who hold to those values. Specifically those my age and younger. We just don't think that way. And don't confuse political conservatives and those who hold traditional values. They're not always one and the same. My in-laws are democrats but hold very traditional values. Something I learned a few years ago was to never confuse someone's politics with their values.

My post was intentional provocative to show that the term traditional means nothing without a timestamp.  Even then, not everyone agreed with those values but you could at least argue that the pervading values at a point in time were X, Y and Z.  

Your sister could be argued as having very progressive values in marrying a Korean and going to a Korean church to someone born in 1940.  But to someone born in 2000, it wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

A lot of "traditional" values are  sexist and racist by today's standards.  Heck, the Declaration of Independence states that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"....as a woman - sorry, you're [BLEEP] outta luck.

Do I believe in the traditional values I listed?  No!  Do I believe in the traditional values you listed?  No!

I'm not sure how you see me as oppressed because I damn sure don't. If I want to do something I'll do it. I've worked in construction, was in the Army, and have always done things my male counterparts didn't always approve of. Guess what? I don't care if they approve. They don't own me and they're damn sure not going to tell me to go back to the house and do women's work. Or they can and they'll get their [BLEEP] handed to them.  

Same for the women. I've been told I need to act more lady-like and be content staying at home. Oh, and the best one is that I must be so sad I never had babies. What the hell ever. 

Small minds are where sexist, racist and bad attitudes in general come from, not someone's values.

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