(02-18-2023, 02:16 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote:

(02-17-2023, 04:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: Roman slavery ended in many waves, it got smaller and smaller as you get closer and closer to the end of the Western empire. The end of slavery coincides with the beginning of Christianity, but the connection is hotly debated because at first Christianity was banned, and a noble would be risking his own status to admit being a Christian, and later Christianity was legally established, and a noble would be risking his own status to deny being a Christian. Anyhow I don't want to violate the CoC.  And those same late Romans turned around and created serfdom, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

That's a very western-centric world view you have. Slavery was common everywhere, but you only focus on the west, and you're essentially proving my point. The convergence of Roman law (human rights), Greek philosophy (rationalism and liberty) and Christianity (individualism and sanctity of human life), created the unique foundational values that are prevalent in the west. Those values ultimately are what began to curb the natural human inclination to dominate those weaker than them, which ultimately led to liberalism. 

Only in liberal societies have you seen a move against racism and slavery. Why? Because individualism, justice, rationality, personal responsibility, sanctity of human life, and liberty are core traditional values in the west. You could also add strong families and faith to the list. Progressives do not adhere to any of these values. You don't get to take racism, which is a blight on the American past, and falsely attribute it to an entire group of people who are annoyed with progressives for tarnishing these values. 

I honestly don't think you're wise enough to understand why you are repeating propaganda that is literally designed to undermine ALL of the values above. Racism is a smokescreen. Don't be so open minded your brain falls out.

Well, you baited me by saying "europeans enslaved europeans" so I had to tell you that they in fact had not enslaved each other for perhaps an entire millenia.  I agree with most of what you're saying about liberals and progressives and western society, if what we mean by western society is western Europe.  
My point of disagreement with you is I don't think anywhere in the western Hemisphere is really western in this sense.  We were colonial and then post-colonial, aspiring to become western.  Writing law like westerners but living lives like colonizers. We are much better now than we were, but we have to keep aspiring to be better and better, especially with regard to how we treat the descendents of the slaves and the natives.
Meanwhile in some odd senses we have leapfrogged our European forebears. Much of what passes as feminism here, French and German women regard as totally over the top. We should have had less "progress" on gender here and more on race.

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