(03-24-2023, 09:11 PM)EricC85 Wrote: The slogan taxation is theft is meant to make a point not taken literally. It's a slogan in libertarian circles meant to demonstrate the level of wealth confiscated at the point of force to redistribute across society. Only the most extreme anarchist belief all taxes are unjust. Most libertarians I know myself included will admit some taxes are necessary for a functioning society. The discussion becomes what must be state funded that can not be privatized and ran more efficiently.

My original point was again France is a prime example of how inefficient government is at wealth planning. Even with the confiscation of 2/3rds of wealth generated they can not sustain their retirement program as promised. The private sector out performs state control wealth generation everytime because the motivation is financial. The lesson we should learn is dependence on social security is a wasted resource. We should push to privatize social security and allow individuals to make their own investments the state ponzi scheme will never be sustainable.

I'm glad you recognize it's a motto that's more designed to attract attention than inform.
There are a lot of things like that.  Little, deceptive, oversimplifications that catch on.

Like how you just said the top marginal tax rate of a country is the ratio of control that government has over that economy.  That's not so. France's top income tax rate plus their VAT rate may indeed add up to about 2/3 (though strictly speaking you should add two tax rates together when they tax different things), but thats the top rate.  And it's a marginal rate.  Even the richest person in France will pay lower rates on their first hundred thousand euros of income.  So no one actually pays that rate overall.  Overall, French government collects about 45% of their GDP as taxes.  Not 2/3.

People here also put too much stock in the budget of the top level, federal part of the country, divided by GDP, when they think about how big their government is. If you look at US federal spending, it's about 20% of GDP.  Seems like our government spends a lot less than France's... except... this ignores state and local taxes and spending.  When you add those in, our number overall is about 35%.  If you look at rural areas, it's usually less.  If you look at Manhattan Island, it's about 45%, just like France.    The number I gave for France already includes their state and local taxes.

As for social security being a ponzi scheme, that's irrelevant. Social security is meant to increase happiness while reducing unemployment. Reducing the number of people who search for work. When you do it right, supply of labor goes down, wages go up, and some of the wages are diverted to to the old folks who didn't work, the old people are happier, and hopefully the wage increase the young people got is more than the tax they paid. Similar reason why we put so many subsidies out there for college now. It's all about contracting the labor market down to a more optimal level.

France definitely overdid it though. You won't find any economist who sticks up for 62 as a sustainable retirement age.

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