(05-24-2023, 01:58 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:

(05-24-2023, 01:27 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: I didn't compare homosexuality to pedophilia. I took a subject that is currently against the pale, pedophilia, and I compared it to the currently debated trans issue, following the same path of acceptance, normalization, and celebration. This wasn't to try to mischaracterize the left, but rather to show how acceptance is different than celebration, and that the latter will inevitably lead to certain behaviors becoming more common.

I didn't make any sweeping generalizations about the left in that post, either. Let me be clear that I am not saying that all people on the left wholly support pedophilia. I don't believe that, and it was never my intent to suggest that. I only mentioned the left because I think it's the only place where the subject of child love can be advocated without outright rejection and disgust. Obviously, the Catholic church has had their problems, but they had to hide it. Nobody on the right (that I know of) is trying to justify why it's ok for priests to sleep with kids. I can speak of many philosophers who have helped shaped the modern progressive movement that are advocates of child sexuality, and I believe this is an underlying and unspoken problem that is pervasive in progressive ideology. Kids are not inherently sexual. The attempt to familiarize them with sexuality comes from adults who improperly elevate their own sexual desires.

OK

Just a few points to clarify:

• 1. You're attributing "the acceptance" of child sexual abuse to the left and attempting to exclude the right and that is silly - these people are twisted, ugly and evil - doesn't matter how you try to pin them down politically - which seems the equivalent of me saying "Jack the Ripper was probably a Republican" -  It's silly
  
• 2. I don't think the normalizing of queer or trans activity deserves a comparison to normalizing these sickos you are comparing that to - apples and oranges
  
• 3. Quoting philosophers isn't going to get us home here either - we could do that till the cows come home - they provide a myriad of quotes leading all over the place
  

annnnnyway - Not really interested in going down the rabbit hole of perversion conspiracy since I don't believe we are seeing that happening. You seem to think so and that's perfectly fine. 

I think we're merely seeing a wider acceptance of queer and trans lifestyle and we, a society as a whole, are trying to figure out what the boundaries of that are going to be. It's still new to us.
 It is likely going to get knocked about and rub some people the wrong way before it possibly settles into a newly accepted framework. 

(just a sidebar on that last comment - As a heterosexual liberal, I can often find myself annoyed by the inundation of queer and trans culture stuff coming down the pike from media and entertainment outlets. It's not for me and it's almost ever-present lately.   I just move past it and find content I prefer, but I do understand that it feels like we get hit over the head with it at times. And I see why folks who disagree with it morally would feel there is a "movement" in place to normalize this stuff with kids)

1. How would you say this is different than someone's claim that racism is associated with the right? I accept that there are racists among "free speech" right. I don't think the right as a whole supports it, but there is an idea, traditionalism, that at least enables some racists to feel justified in their racism, even though it's not accepted by mainstream conservatives. The same is true with the left and child sexuality.
2. I am not comparing the practice, but comparing how the celebration of any practice will naturally lead to an increase of that behavior. I could have used cannibalism, murder, rape. It doesn't matter. Celebrate it, and it will become more common, because humans have a remarkable capacity for adaptation.
3. It's important to understand why people believe what they believe. I spent years learning the philosophy of the left so I can better understand their arguments. I don't think most people care, but it does affect the dialogue, because people are often quick to repeat talking points without considering the underlying argument. Moral relativism is a very strong component of progressive ideology, and a lot of that gets applied to anything that is considered taboo. 

As a whole, I don't think broader America has a problem with what people do as an adult. I think they care about being feeling "forced" to accept lifestyles they don't understand. I mostly agree with your assessment of getting used to something that is different that what you are used to seeing. I think I disagree that we need to automatically accept this new framework. I think there is a difference between acceptance, normalization, and celebration, and we don't have enough of a nuanced conversation about these things. We have no adults in the room, so to speak.

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