(08-07-2023, 03:41 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote:

(08-07-2023, 09:26 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: The bolded is this pathetic little mantra you lot have adopted rather than face the reality that the world is passing you by and progressive thought is winning the day. 

You are the willfully ignorant

You choose to believe theory over plain fact. 

You choose to invent narratives to explain failures by the politicians you vote for. 

Your stupid assumption that the left are somehow ignorant of money and power structure is yet another idiotic attempt to explain away your inability to come to terms with the fact that the world around you is changing and your antiquated ideals are being left in the dust. If you think the left isn't fighting against the elites - you aren't paying attention outside of your little orbit.  At all. 

Our freedom and power are not being stripped away. We're simply evolving beyond your world view. 
All of this angst and lashing out you display toward me and the left in general is probably a product of your refusal to accept this reality. 

I've never seen such massive and widespread delusion among a group of voters when their guy just simply lost the election.

Oh boy, here we go again
Lol. You have such an unearned sense of superiority.  What right do you have to condescend against those who feel the weight of the government hand?  Buddy, it's not my fault you're scared of the boogieman! You want me to feel badly because I don't believe the fear mongering tripe you believe?  Sorry,  it just doesn't work that way. What is your expertise other than consumer of news? I have no problem with your opinions, but you overvalue your worth to these conversations. Bolded there is all in your head. You're projecting. Your great enlightenment was at the airport and that Trump is a charlatan? Wow. Nah. No enlightenment pal. Was just reflecting on how ironic some of it is. 

I don't "invent" narratives. I take my time, use my eyes and my brain, and I start trying to connect ideas that are rooted in substance. i.e. connecting dots that don't align and making unwise assumptions  Even though folks like Marty want to distill these ideas into "conspiracy theories," I do my best to try to share these ideas with reason and data that you casually ignore when it's convenient. You've not given me any supportive data at any juncture If you don't want to see it, you won't. If you don't take the time to consider it, how will ever understand the problem? You don't even take the time to address the issues in most posts. If this is like every other argument you "win," you will take 90% of this post, discard it, and attack the single weakest position you feel you can attack. You say you come here to learn, but what are you "learning?" Seems a lot like stone throwing to me. I do end up throwing a lot of stones here in response to insults and condescension. It works both ways. I don't just light into someone who isn't using aggressive language.

You don't want to take the effort to wrap your close-minded little brain about the ways the world is ACTUALLY changing. You accept platitudes and FACTS from people you consider to be "experts," only because they are trotted out in front of you by people who have power to deem them as such. Anyone who voices a different opinion, regardless of their credentials, are instantly dismissed and discredited by the same people who have the power to deem them as such. Yes, yes, yes... All of the experts that find their way into the newspapers and 37 different media outlets are all puppets of the dark regime. Sure, pal. You're right and ALLLL of them are wrong. Sounds legit. How the hell am I supposed to debate delusion exactly? 

That wouldn't be a problem in a true free market, where people could challenge the status quo and create opportunities for themselves where gaps rise and fall. However, in a corporate oligarchy, this just isn't the case. You read articles chosen and crafted by editors who work for companies that want to make money. Those companies are supposed to be selling their audience to advertisers who are competing for that market. That system has been inverted. 

The WFA represents 90% of the world's advertising dollars. Companies who want access to that money need to comply with the standards that are laid out by GARM, a flagship project of the WEC. The WEC is an unelected body of elites that see corporations as the drivers of the future, not us. Networks aren't selling their access to an audience as the primary source of income. Instead, they are competing to be the best representatives of these imposed corporate guidelines. Prove it. And what is wrong with the GARM standards?? They are basic. How are those standards an example of "our gov being taken over and stripping us of our power?"  Those are facts. Not conspiracy. An unelected body is organizing their power and money to tailor the content that you and I see. This is not a small problem. This is not (or should not be) business as usual. I don't see how you can look at that and say we have more power, not less. This is just one illustration of many that don't even begin to scratch the surface of the problem we, as Americans, actually face in this country. It's a standard of content for advertising that keeps the airwaves free of hate speech., pornography and images of death. But you don't personally decide those standards, so it must be evil right? 

I don't make excuses for "my politicians." I don't believe there are any "my politicians." I think that MOST of the people in our highest offices are bought and paid for. Even twenty years ago, this was largely considered common knowledge, especially from those on the left. Trump is not "my guy." There is no "my guy." My complaints have always been about the ways our government is slowly being sold to the highest bidder, its power being leveraged for profit, its systems being less transparent and accountable, and its messaging becoming increasingly divisive and authoritarian. That is not progress. 

I am easily the most liberal "conservative" on this board. I do not fear change. I do not fear new ideas. I am growing increasingly frustrated with the comfortable, arrogant "moderates" who repeat what they are told and refuse to consider the obvious problems that are occurring in this country so that a very small group of people can become wealthier. I can look at almost every issue and see how it creates instability that somehow makes rich people richer. The numbers are all there.

And, lastly, I know there are people on the left who claim they are fighting the elites as they attend the Met Gala for $35,000 a person in their designer dresses. Tax the rich, they say, even though they hold power and the transfer of wealth to the rich somehow continues to rise. Sure. They are doing a great job as they protest abortion and riot in the streets about the .000006% of blacks per capita who are killed by cops every year (as opposed to the .000006% of whites per capita). The horror. Oh, and all the while, they live the traditional conservative life, teaching conservative values to their kids... find a good spouse, stay married, have kids in wedlock, work hard, be financially responsible, keep our kids of sugar and technology and give them a good education. But let's make sure the rest of these people use public education, with public transportation, and know they can be any gender, have kids out of wedlock (or even better, get an abortion), get on welfare, live on the streets. The left is really crushing it. 

Make no mistake, none of this is advocating for the entrenched politicians on the right, which you will see conservatives on this board consistently denounce as frauds. Why? Because they do the exact same thing as the hucksters on the left. They are for sale. They just use a different divisive message. You, and Mikey, and Marty keep believing the magic trick. Yeah, I've made it clear the shortcomings of candidates we get stuck with are unacceptable across the board if I were to have any real and proper choice. 

If there is one thing we can agree on - it is that ^ I suppose. 

We are indeed screwed by the lack of choice and quality of candidate. 
If there is one thing I DO believe the most powerful want to keep in place to control us, it is that particular aspect of our system. 

I just think that our system (Constitution) does a much better job of protecting us with checks and balances than you do (once one of those candidates get elected.)
That's why (despite all of the bleating here) none of our actual lives have been radically changed because we went from Carter, to Reagan, to Bush, to Clinton, to Bush, to Obama, to Trump, to Biden. Folks like to pretend all hell broke loose each time one of these transitions happened, but it really didn't. 
Very little changed in the grand scheme of American Freedom. Society around us changed with the times, but it didn't come from those in office at the time or we'd have seen wild swings in societal norms as these various administrations shifted in and out of power. We didn't. We were lucky under each of these Presidents to live more freely than the vast majority of humans. I'm still grateful for it.

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