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Jan 6 - Trump Indicted


(08-09-2023, 03:07 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(08-08-2023, 05:18 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: It absolutely matters. If your definition of freedom is that I'm free to do whatever the government tells me to do, then you are right... our freedoms haven't changed. If freedom means that we should be able to govern ourselves at the smallest local level, then, yes, our freedoms have absolutely has changed. This country hasn't stayed the same under Reagan, and Bush, and Clinton, and Obama, and Trump, and Biden. It's changed drastically.

The federal government's authority has changed drastically. Our economy has changed drastically. Our patriotism has changed drastically. Our ability to provide for ourselves has changed drastically. Our ability to speak our mind in public has changed drastically. All of this changes our freedoms. Some of these changes are hidden and some are overt. Some are self-imposed and some are enforced. Some people like the changes and some don't. It's clear that you aren't feeling these changes, but other people see them and feel repressed. You said yourself earlier in this thread, "progressive thought is winning." Winning what? The power of the federal government. That is going to create lifestyle changes that impact certain peoples' freedoms. 
It means every new generation has fewer people stuck in the rut of voting based on religious belief or the "values" intrinsically tied to them. How is that making anyone less free? 

Like I said, I can point out many of these changes, but if your response is that "it's the law and it's how it should be," then we are essentially having a semantics discussion about freedom.

And that's just one half of the discussion. The other half are the changes that are taking place behind the scenes. Our political capital is the single most important part of a free society, and, without a doubt, that is also being stripped from us.

My definition is the one from Merriam Webster. 

And it did not change from one administration to the next. 

We were free then, and we are free now. 

Clearly not free from you complaining about being stripped of some imaginary freedom you can't seem to actually pinpoint for me, but we're free.

I haven't even started pinpointing them yet. Seems a bit presumptuous. So let's look at Merriam-Webster
  1. The condition of not being in prison or captivity.
  2. The condition of being free of restraints, especially the ability to act without control or interference by another or by circumstance.
  3. The condition of not being controlled by another nation or political power; political independence.
  4. The condition of not being subject to a despotic or oppressive power; civil liberty.
  5. The condition of not being constrained or restricted in a specific aspect of life by a government or other power.
  6. The condition of not being a slave.

There are 6 definitions. Which one are you using? The idea behind the liberties laid out in our constitution was 5. I imagine you are using 4. Can we agree to 5 for the purposes of this discussion?
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-01-2023, 06:43 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-01-2023, 06:50 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-01-2023, 06:58 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by HURRICANE!!! - 08-02-2023, 09:17 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-02-2023, 10:28 AM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 10:39 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-01-2023, 06:51 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-02-2023, 06:38 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 07:46 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-02-2023, 08:08 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 08:25 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-02-2023, 09:13 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 09:30 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-01-2023, 07:04 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-01-2023, 07:12 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Sneakers - 08-01-2023, 09:53 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-01-2023, 10:05 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-01-2023, 11:06 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-01-2023, 11:40 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-01-2023, 07:57 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-01-2023, 10:17 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Sneakers - 08-02-2023, 09:50 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 10:44 AM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 10:50 AM
RE: homebiscuit - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 11:01 AM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 11:04 AM
RE: homebiscuit - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 11:11 AM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 11:19 AM
RE: homebiscuit - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 11:38 AM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 11:45 AM
RE: homebiscuit - by flsprtsgod - 08-02-2023, 11:52 AM
RE: homebiscuit - by NYC4jags - 08-02-2023, 12:06 PM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 12:22 PM
RE: homebiscuit - by NYC4jags - 08-02-2023, 12:34 PM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 12:50 PM
RE: homebiscuit - by NYC4jags - 08-02-2023, 12:57 PM
RE: homebiscuit - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 01:09 PM
RE: homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 01:11 PM
RE: homebiscuit - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 12:56 PM
RE: homebiscuit - by Sneakers - 08-02-2023, 01:00 PM
RE: homebiscuit - by WingerDinger - 08-02-2023, 11:39 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-02-2023, 11:00 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-02-2023, 02:22 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-02-2023, 08:48 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 08:54 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-02-2023, 11:25 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-02-2023, 11:43 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Sneakers - 08-02-2023, 05:36 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-02-2023, 05:44 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 05:51 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Sneakers - 08-02-2023, 10:41 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-03-2023, 10:01 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Sneakers - 08-03-2023, 08:41 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-03-2023, 10:52 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Sneakers - 08-06-2023, 12:34 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-07-2023, 10:08 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-02-2023, 07:28 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-02-2023, 09:50 AM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 10:11 AM
RE: homebiscuit - by The Real Marty - 08-02-2023, 10:14 AM
homebiscuit - by homebiscuit - 08-02-2023, 10:24 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-02-2023, 11:14 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-02-2023, 02:41 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-02-2023, 09:25 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Sneakers - 08-02-2023, 10:35 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-03-2023, 10:43 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-03-2023, 10:18 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-02-2023, 06:13 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-02-2023, 06:21 PM
Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by p_rushing - 08-02-2023, 11:22 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-03-2023, 07:06 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-03-2023, 05:57 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-03-2023, 01:13 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-03-2023, 01:43 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-03-2023, 03:00 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-03-2023, 08:49 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-04-2023, 12:07 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-04-2023, 12:11 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-04-2023, 02:40 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-04-2023, 03:03 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-05-2023, 09:05 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-05-2023, 12:54 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-05-2023, 04:40 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-05-2023, 04:46 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-05-2023, 04:47 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-05-2023, 12:42 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-05-2023, 02:02 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-05-2023, 02:10 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-05-2023, 02:41 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-05-2023, 04:35 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-04-2023, 01:37 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-03-2023, 11:51 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-04-2023, 09:48 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-04-2023, 05:32 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-04-2023, 06:11 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-05-2023, 03:43 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by JW - 08-05-2023, 04:14 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by homebiscuit - 08-05-2023, 04:49 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-05-2023, 04:52 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-05-2023, 04:57 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-05-2023, 06:03 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-06-2023, 11:52 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by copycat - 08-06-2023, 07:34 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-06-2023, 08:54 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-07-2023, 02:01 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-07-2023, 02:48 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-07-2023, 03:21 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by copycat - 08-07-2023, 09:04 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-07-2023, 09:13 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-08-2023, 09:41 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-08-2023, 10:27 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-07-2023, 08:53 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-07-2023, 09:26 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-07-2023, 11:28 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-07-2023, 12:02 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-07-2023, 12:51 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-07-2023, 01:02 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-07-2023, 01:43 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-07-2023, 02:07 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-07-2023, 02:13 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-07-2023, 03:41 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-07-2023, 04:42 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-07-2023, 05:49 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-07-2023, 06:24 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-07-2023, 09:46 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-07-2023, 11:04 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-08-2023, 09:41 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-08-2023, 01:22 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-08-2023, 01:37 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-08-2023, 01:41 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-08-2023, 01:52 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-08-2023, 02:25 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-08-2023, 03:14 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-08-2023, 03:25 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-08-2023, 04:10 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-08-2023, 05:37 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-09-2023, 02:58 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-09-2023, 04:28 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-08-2023, 03:31 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-08-2023, 01:16 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-08-2023, 01:22 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-08-2023, 05:18 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-09-2023, 03:07 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-09-2023, 05:12 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-08-2023, 01:36 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by flsprtsgod - 08-08-2023, 01:38 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-08-2023, 01:40 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-09-2023, 05:22 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-09-2023, 09:12 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-10-2023, 07:03 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-10-2023, 08:58 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-10-2023, 07:19 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-10-2023, 07:28 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-10-2023, 08:21 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Jaguarmeister - 08-10-2023, 09:13 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-10-2023, 10:40 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Jaguarmeister - 08-10-2023, 01:38 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-10-2023, 02:02 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Jaguarmeister - 08-10-2023, 07:10 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-10-2023, 08:54 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-10-2023, 10:18 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-11-2023, 08:14 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-11-2023, 08:25 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-11-2023, 09:02 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-11-2023, 09:30 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-11-2023, 12:05 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by NYC4jags - 08-11-2023, 06:26 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by The Real Marty - 08-11-2023, 09:00 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 08-11-2023, 01:17 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 08-10-2023, 09:11 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 08-11-2023, 11:36 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by WingerDinger - 09-02-2023, 12:40 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by MarleyJag - 09-02-2023, 12:59 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by jagibelieve - 09-02-2023, 04:51 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by MarleyJag - 09-02-2023, 05:19 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 09-09-2023, 10:30 AM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by mikesez - 09-09-2023, 01:25 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by MarleyJag - 09-09-2023, 01:43 PM
RE: Jan 6 - Trump Indicted - by Lucky2Last - 09-09-2023, 05:06 PM



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