(09-25-2023, 09:05 PM)Sneakers Wrote:

(09-25-2023, 09:41 AM)mikesez Wrote: I basically work for developers.
I am intimately aware of the process.  Utility companies quote prices to developers for any infrastructure upgrade that a proposed new development needs.  Roads are more complicated aspect because the city council / County commission get involved, but roads, water and electricity are usually solved quickly.  Stormwater too.  The engineers tell you what to build and you build it.  
The holdup is usually at the zoning level, and not related to infrastructure at all, just related to the biases of the existing residents and their desire to keep everything the same.  All of the engineering problems can be solved with more money.  The zoning problems are usually unsolvable. 
In unincorporated parts of Florida, this is usually not a problem, but it is a problem in certain parts of certain cities.  In California, it's a problem in pretty much every city.
As far as water running out, sure, in Phoenix and Vegas that's a concern, but most places no. Again, stop assuming you know more than me.  At least be nice if you're going to disagree.

Opinions such as you've expressed, "Local governments just need to get out of the way.", doesn't suggest a great deal of knowledge or experience.   

For development to occur, not only must zoning allow it, but infrastructure must also be able to support it.  If you know anything, you should know sewer is the key to density.  Major upgrades to municipal systems for increased capacity can be a HUGE deal, involving public hearings, bond votes and possibly approval and/or coordination with the State.  Roads, likewise, can also require State approval in addition to local.  I'm currently involved in a mixed-use development project that can support in excess of 300 residential units, in addition to commercial space.  Municipal zoning is very favorable, and the Town is receptive, but the State is opposed to the upgrade of an existing non-signalized intersection to signalized.  I don't want this local government ''out of the way", I want them standing right next to me when I'm up against the State.  I'm not expecting the solution to this problem be quick, easy or inexpensive. 
The need for State approvals can also be triggered by number of dwelling units, acreage of disturbed soils, vehicle trips, wetlands, shoreline impact, animal habitat, natural resources on the property, archeological artifacts, etc.  It's a long list.  Problems like these are not solved as easily as you appear to believe and State regulations can often be more restrictive than local.  

You also are ignoring (or are unaware of) the complications development faces with other local public services.  For example, the developer must demonstrate the project will not overly burden police, fire and school services.  Another project I delt with a few years ago was partially halted because of a moratorium on residential development over concerns about limited school capacity.  16 building lots in an approved PUD were frozen for two and a half years!  
The 5 and 6 story buildings you suggest sound like an easy stimulant, but does the local fire department have the equipment to handle a rescue from that height?  Many smaller towns do not.  Don't you agree it would be irresponsible for a municipality to approve residential construction that it lacks the emergency services to support?  

Local zoning problems are not "usually unsolvable" and can sometimes be overcome far more easily than engineering challenges.  It all comes down to the mindset and political will of the governing body.

Sounds like our experiences are similar.
For the purposes of this discussion, from the perspective of someone who just needs an affordable place to live, the level of government is not relevant.  They don't care if it's the school board or the water management district or the county commission or the state.  
From the perspective of each of those levels, and from the persepectice of folks like us that try to get these things built, yes, sometimes one entity says "here's an ideal place to build" and the other says, "actually there's a big problem there." But they are supposed to cooperate and figure it out, and in Florida they usually do.  It's in California where they usually don't.  Have you tried building anything on the west coast? My family has, and so have my job contacts.
As for your question of a smaller town not having the fire equipment to service a 6 story apartment, don't be dense man.  Stop assuming I'm wrong.  Stop jumping to that conclusion. If you think I'm wrong, think about how I could be right.  Obviously we're not trying to build a 5 over 1 in Keystone Heights.  No.  We are trying to infill and upgrade areas that are already incorporated to or adjacent to cities that have tall buildings.  They will have most everything like that already.  In Florida this is relatively easy.  In most other states it is very hard.

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